Author Topic: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church  (Read 637 times)

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Offline Alpha60

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https://youtu.be/g5WonijOgXc

The audio accompanying this video is not entirely correct on some points (for example, the claim that Russian Orthodox worship has not changed at all since the Baptism of the Rus under St. Vladimir, which is a bit preposterous), but setting aside the annoying narration, the actual videos of what is going on in Ukrainian Catholic parishes is deeply distressing.

I am increasingly inclined to agree with Antonious Nikolaus as to the diabolical nature of Charismatic and Pentecostal worship, and the related heterodox "praise and worship" music genre.  Seeing that occurring in the Byzantine Rite, in Ukraine, is horrific and depressing; I was under the misguided impression that such abuses in the Eastern Catholic churches mainly occurred in a few isolated places in the diaspora, for example, the Melkite Archbishop of Caracas in his cathedral.

The narration claims that the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church even has a bishop appointed specifically to care for the charismatic community; this was apparently stated by the UGCC's Metropolitan.  If someone who speaks Ukrainian can verify that he is being correctly translated by the narrator, that would be extremely helpful.  At the same time, the thought of the UGCC having a designated Charismatic bishop is also unbelievably depressing.

Frankly, I would rather the UGCC have retained the various Latinizations that used to characterize its worship (and which are still observed by the Priestly Society of St. Josaphat, a Byzantine Catholic traditionalist group akin to, and in league with, the Latin Rite SSPX), than to embrace this disturbing charismatic worship.  The Latinizations were annoying, but I cannot pronounce them heretical, whereas what we see in this charismatic worship is absolutely inimical to Holy Orthodoxy.
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Offline HaydenTE

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2017, 10:30:08 PM »
This would cause my deacon to either faint or start an angry mob.
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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 12:36:06 AM »
So this is what Kuntzevych died for?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 12:38:42 AM by RaphaCam »
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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2017, 01:44:21 PM »
If someone who speaks Ukrainian can verify that he is being correctly translated by the narrator, that would be extremely helpful. 
Unfortunately, the English version is too loud.
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Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2017, 01:29:46 PM »
I think we have to look at the source of this Video:  the Union of Orthodox Journalists, which is just another Putin propaganda tool.

The English narrator's voice drowns out the original speakers in the video.  I also question some of the pictures - are they really from Ukrainian Catholic Churches?  Or doctored images from Roman Catholic Churches?

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.ca/2016/01/moscow-patriarchate-sets-up-new-staff.html


Quote
Staunton, January 16 – The Moscow Patriarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church has set up a new staff in the synod department of external church affairs ...
            In an article on Ukrinform.ru entitled “The Moscow Patriarchate as Commissar of Hybrid War,” Kyiv journalist Lana Samokhvalova says that this staff, headquartered in Moscow, seeks to create controversies between the Orthodox churches in Ukraine so as to be able to complain to the OSCE and other international bodies that Ukraine is religiously intolerant (ukrinform.ru/rubric-community/1944967-moskovskiy-patriarhat-kak-komissar-gibridnoy-voynyi.html).
            Among the groups this new staff oversees are the Union of Orthodox Brotherhoods, the Union of Orthodox Citizens, the Association of Orthodox Citizens, and other radical nationalist groups not publicly associated with the Moscow Patriarchate in order to suggest that these conflicts arise within Ukraine and to give Moscow deniability as far as its role is concerned.
            The chief operative of this Moscow staff in Ukraine is the Union of Orthodox Journalists which “in fact,” Samokhvalova says, “is neither a union or contain journalists or Orthodox faithful.” Instead, it is an FSB operation intended to provoke conflicts between the Moscow Patriarchate and the parishes of the Kyiv Patriarchate and then blame them on the latter. 

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2017, 05:09:20 PM »
Whatever the source of the video might be, there's no denying that there was some horrendous and evil stuff going on there.  The stuff going from 5:46 onward - with the dancing monks, etc. - is from the pit of hell.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2017, 05:47:51 PM »
At 5:30 In the video they show a photo of a Greek Catholic webpage in Ukrainian that gives details talks about a Ukrainian "Greek Catholic" organization for Renewal in tbe Holy Spirit called the Blessing or Blagoslovennya that started in the spring of 2007.

Since the Pope approves the Charismatic movement, this is foreseeable.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 05:52:30 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2017, 07:05:33 PM »
This is the number one reason I am grateful to God that Orthodoxy will never be reconciled to the rancid corpse of the Latin Church and her Eastern colonies.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2017, 11:03:39 PM »
If someone who speaks Ukrainian can verify that he is being correctly translated by the narrator, that would be extremely helpful. 
Unfortunately, the English version is too loud.
At 5:30 There are snapshots of Catholic webpages in Ukrainian talking about the Greek Catholic holy spirit renewal movement.
.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 11:09:19 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2017, 11:05:34 PM »
I think we have to look at the source of this Video:  the Union of Orthodox Journalists, which is just another Putin propaganda tool.

The English narrator's voice drowns out the original speakers in the video.  I also question some of the pictures - are they really from Ukrainian Catholic Churches?  Or doctored images from Roman Catholic Churches?

http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.ca/2016/01/moscow-patriarchate-sets-up-new-staff.html


Quote
Staunton, January 16 – The Moscow Patriarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church has set up a new staff in the synod department of external church affairs ...
            In an article on Ukrinform.ru entitled “The Moscow Patriarchate as Commissar of Hybrid War,” Kyiv journalist Lana Samokhvalova says that this staff, headquartered in Moscow, seeks to create controversies between the Orthodox churches in Ukraine so as to be able to complain to the OSCE and other international bodies that Ukraine is religiously intolerant (ukrinform.ru/rubric-community/1944967-moskovskiy-patriarhat-kak-komissar-gibridnoy-voynyi.html).
            Among the groups this new staff oversees are the Union of Orthodox Brotherhoods, the Union of Orthodox Citizens, the Association of Orthodox Citizens, and other radical nationalist groups not publicly associated with the Moscow Patriarchate in order to suggest that these conflicts arise within Ukraine and to give Moscow deniability as far as its role is concerned.
            The chief operative of this Moscow staff in Ukraine is the Union of Orthodox Journalists which “in fact,” Samokhvalova says, “is neither a union or contain journalists or Orthodox faithful.” Instead, it is an FSB operation intended to provoke conflicts between the Moscow Patriarchate and the parishes of the Kyiv Patriarchate and then blame them on the latter. 
There is enough info from the Greek Catholic renewal webpages to see that the phenomena exists at 5:30 in the clip. I see no need for the MP to Photoshop claims since the phenomenon is real and publicized by the UGCC itself.

It is only a question of whether one takes the same attitude as the MP narrator when faced with the same facts. The MP narrator is critical.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 11:09:49 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline Sharbel

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 06:43:04 PM »
Many an Eastern Catholic Church has adopted, if not the customs, the ethos of the Roman Catholic Church of change for its own sake. 

As PP JPII affirmed the Charismatic Renewal movement, it shouldn't take long before the Ukrainian Catholic Church would, as its Roman counterparts, appoint a priest to shepherd charismatics in each eparchy.

Regardless of the animus of the producers of this video, if hasn't already happened in Ukraine, it has happened in many Eastern Catholic eparchies in the US.
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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2017, 06:58:59 PM »
Many an Eastern Catholic Church has adopted, if not the customs, the ethos of the Roman Catholic Church of change for its own sake. 

As PP JPII affirmed the Charismatic Renewal movement, it shouldn't take long before the Ukrainian Catholic Church would, as its Roman counterparts, appoint a priest to shepherd charismatics in each eparchy.

Regardless of the animus of the producers of this video, if hasn't already happened in Ukraine, it has happened in many Eastern Catholic eparchies in the US.

If there is any definitive proof that a church is false and not a part of the Body of Christ, it is its acceptance of the demonic Charismatic Movement.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2017, 07:02:49 PM »
If there is any definitive proof that a church is false and not a part of the Body of Christ, it is its acceptance of the demonic Charismatic Movement.
In my personal and anecdotal experience, having found myself caught up in a Charismatic Mass too far away from an emergency exit, yes, it's demonic in some degree.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 07:03:07 PM by Sharbel »
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2017, 07:45:15 PM »
If there is any definitive proof that a church is false and not a part of the Body of Christ, it is its acceptance of the demonic Charismatic Movement.
In my personal and anecdotal experience, having found myself caught up in a Charismatic Mass too far away from an emergency exit, yes, it's demonic in some degree.

That's been my experience as well, but I'm not basing my opinion simply on anecdotal experience.  The roots of Charismatism reveal heathen, demonic origins.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2017, 07:59:24 PM »
... The roots of Charismatism reveal heathen, demonic origins.

Hey, now, the one black guy at Azusa Street was ostracized almost immediately.
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2017, 08:17:45 PM »
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https://youtu.be/XrDUO7vSgf8
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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2017, 11:04:26 PM »
... The roots of Charismatism reveal heathen, demonic origins.

Hey, now, the one black guy at Azusa Street was ostracized almost immediately.

Pentecostalism's roots go back far beyond Azusa Street.

Satan's Top Ten Favorite Benny Hinn Moments
https://youtu.be/XrDUO7vSgf8

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2017, 11:08:51 PM »
Satan's Top Ten Favorite Benny Hinn Moments
https://youtu.be/XrDUO7vSgf8

I made it to "Holy Ghost enema" and that was as much as I could take...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 11:09:01 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2017, 11:14:33 PM »
I made it to "Holy Ghost enema" and that was as much as I could take...

If Charismatism were at all an authentic part of the Christian tradition I'd be a Jew or a Muslim.  There's no way I could worship the foul spirit that is the author of that movement.

I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

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Re: Unpleasant Charismatic liturgical abuse in Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2017, 11:34:57 PM »
Thread locked pending moderator review.

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How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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