Author Topic: To what extent do emotions play in Liturgy?  (Read 230 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline LivenotoneviL

  • An Indecisive Sinner
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 502
  • 404 - Quote not found
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Not a Catechumen
To what extent do emotions play in Liturgy?
« on: November 03, 2017, 03:58:01 PM »
To what extent should emotions play in Liturgy?
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Keep shining, star!

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,596
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: To what extent do emotions play in Liturgy?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2017, 04:07:03 PM »
"Emotions" is a very broad category. Contrition, gravity, awe, softening -- if these are emotions, they are appropriate for the liturgy. But what "emotions" is mostly used for, the passions -- wrath against oneself, despair, sweeping sentiment, ecstasy -- no, these are inimical to the liturgy's spiritual work as common as they may be in other churches.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 04:10:05 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Dominika

  • Troublesome Sheep
  • Global Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,437
  • Serbian/Polish
    • My youtube channel
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: POC, but my heart belongs to Antioch
Re: To what extent do emotions play in Liturgy?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2017, 04:13:51 PM »
To what extent should emotions play in Liturgy?

Can you specify the questions? Or give some examples?
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

My Orthodox liturgical blog "For what eat, while you can fast" in Polish (videos featuring chants in different languages)

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,321
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: To what extent do emotions play in Liturgy?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2017, 04:23:55 PM »
When receiving, I'm usually very much in "the fear of God" mode.

During the Liturgy, I'm often emotionally moved.

I don't know if that is something which "plays" in the Liturgy, as much as it's something that happens to me during it.

The "fear of God" is explicitly uttered by the priest before communion.

 “In the fear of God, with faith and love, draw near!”

So, that's one emotion that is important to have during the Liturgy.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 04:29:23 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
This profile is defunct as of 11/8/2017. I created it before Orthodoxy, and have used it after Orthodoxy.

I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

I will likely lurk on this forum under a different name.

Offline LivenotoneviL

  • An Indecisive Sinner
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 502
  • 404 - Quote not found
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Not a Catechumen
Re: To what extent do emotions play in Liturgy?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2017, 04:31:41 PM »
Essentially what emotions are appropriate and what aren't? What intents of emotions are appropriate and what intents are not?
"Our wickedness shall not overpower the unspeakable goodness and mercy of God; our dullness shall not overpower God's wisdom, nor our infirmity God's omnipotence."
-Saint John of Kronstadt

Keep shining, star!

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,596
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: To what extent do emotions play in Liturgy?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2017, 04:36:03 PM »
Essentially what emotions are appropriate and what aren't? What intents of emotions are appropriate and what intents are not?

I have a bit of an issue with terming the fear of God or gratitude or contrition "emotions." By some technicality they may be. But, as I said above, usually "emotions" means feelings that are foreign to an impassible nature, and guiding us to impassibility is a vital aspect of the Liturgy's healing work. What one encounters as "good emotions" at Protestant revivals or in Theresa of Lisieux is not Orthodox and not healing.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Dominika

  • Troublesome Sheep
  • Global Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,437
  • Serbian/Polish
    • My youtube channel
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: POC, but my heart belongs to Antioch
Re: To what extent do emotions play in Liturgy?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2017, 04:37:03 PM »
I think it may very vary from person to person, I like the answers both of Porter and xOrthodox4Christx. I think that in some cases, at some services the certain prayers and hymns indicate us the emotions we should feel and attitude we should take, for example mentioned above "with fear of God, belief and love come over!". The hymns of the Holy Week and Pascha are Very good examples too.
Edit: I think that Orthodox prayers and hymns are full of emotions, just see the words that are used, the exlamatianos marks, the dynamism of our services. It's full of expressions made by mouth and body, that are in order to help us to introudce our whole being into relation with God and His saints, into the events that we're celebrating a new. Every Divine Liturgy is a Pascha, and every feast is not a simple commeoration, but reviving the events. So, that's the reason that (at least in Slavic and Arabic languages) we call Eucharist "taking a part", as we take a part in God, in the events we celebrate. So, all these things are full of emotions.

I'd say that some emotions, feelings, attitudes are repeated in the Orthodox prayers: humility, fear of God, joy.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 04:43:53 PM by Dominika »
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

My Orthodox liturgical blog "For what eat, while you can fast" in Polish (videos featuring chants in different languages)

Offline Gorazd

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,160
  • Faith: 7 Councils
  • Jurisdiction: First without Equals
Re: To what extent do emotions play in Liturgy?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2017, 04:44:15 PM »
What one encounters as "good emotions" at Protestant revivals or in Theresa of Lisieux is not Orthodox and not healing.

Is that your personal opinion, or why do you take this position?

Online Luke

  • Formerly Gamliel
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,023
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of San Francisco
Re: To what extent do emotions play in Liturgy?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2017, 06:05:12 PM »
I usually do not consider myself having any certain emotions.  If I am angry about something or thinking about something a lot, I try to concentrate on the Liturgy, because that is supposed to be what I am thinking about.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,321
  • Faith: Orthodox Catholic Church
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: To what extent do emotions play in Liturgy?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2017, 06:09:06 PM »
I usually do not consider myself having any certain emotions.  If I am angry about something or thinking about something a lot, I try to concentrate on the Liturgy, because that is supposed to be what I am thinking about.

Good point. We're supposed to lay aside all Earthly cares at the Liturgy, and focus on God.
This profile is defunct as of 11/8/2017. I created it before Orthodoxy, and have used it after Orthodoxy.

I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

I will likely lurk on this forum under a different name.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,596
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: To what extent do emotions play in Liturgy?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2017, 06:54:30 PM »
What one encounters as "good emotions" at Protestant revivals or in Theresa of Lisieux is not Orthodox and not healing.

Is that your personal opinion, or why do you take this position?

The crux is discerning the passions. That the passions are enemies of salvation is Orthodox bedrock, because this is the teaching of the Fathers and elders and implied strongly in St. James and St. Paul. However, yes, I do have personal experience coinciding with the teaching, and I assume you do too, if you become aware of it.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 06:56:34 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy