Author Topic: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John  (Read 2386 times)

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Offline mikeforjesus

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But I thought polycarp was

But why did st ignatius seem to volunteer himself for martyrdom if he could have escaped it lawfully? Was their offer unlawful? However I know it is not right to volunteer yourself first without someone already wanting to murder you
If that is the case I wish to do the same also
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 01:14:34 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline minasoliman

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Both Polycarp and Ignatius were both disciples of John and good friends of each other.

Ignatius provided us an example of fearlessly approaching the sentence made against him.  He didn't volunteer.  He was sentenced to death, and then he volunteered to be arrested without resistance.  He also told others do not resist his approach to martyrdom, because he believed the martyrdom is what makes him a true human being in Christ, where true life comes from.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Thanks but if they resisted would he have been set free ? Without harm to any other Christian ?

Offline minasoliman

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I'm not sure I understand the question.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline mikeforjesus

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You don't have to understand if the question I am asking is one that seems important for me to know . I just want to know the facts. I don't see why you can't answer the question. It is clear as crystal mina.
The question is could his fellow christians have stopped his martyrdom but he told them not to? or if they tried to stop it could they have got killed?

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Frankly Ignatius' story sounds more like  pure literature than history. It just doesn't add up .
I have doubts he's a historical character. More likely an epistolary device in a brutal internecine Christian war.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 02:21:15 AM by augustin717 »
"I saw a miracle where 2 people entered church one by baptism and one by chrismation. On pictures the one received by full baptism was shinning in light the one by chrismation no."

Offline mikeforjesus

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Well if we have many manuscripts like the bible it can not be.  I know we should not doubt manuscripts but I have before because I thought you could make a paper look older by thousands of years.But the bible is confirmed by those who try to have relationship with God as Jesus said he who wills to do His will will know whether the doctrine I speak is from God or from men.
We see God is close only to those who accept the gospel and works in their life
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 02:22:23 AM by mikeforjesus »

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Frankly Ignatius' story sounds more like  pure literature than history. It just doesn't add up .
I have doubts he's a historical character. More likely an epistolary device in a brutal internecine Christian war.

Yup.
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline minasoliman

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You don't have to understand if the question I am asking is one that seems important for me to know . I just want to know the facts. I don't see why you can't answer the question. It is clear as crystal mina.
The question is could his fellow christians have stopped his martyrdom but he told them not to? or if they tried to stop it could they have got killed?

No really, I didn't understand basically because of that second question about the "without harm to other Christians" part.  But now you made it clear.

They might have stopped him.  But I don't know much of what would have happened if they tried to stop him.  The letter to the Romans seems to portray the situation as he could have gotten away with it, but he didn't want to.  In fact, he saw it his Christian duty to march forward and implied that if anyone tried to stop him did not have God in him.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline minasoliman

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Frankly Ignatius' story sounds more like  pure literature than history. It just doesn't add up .
I have doubts he's a historical character. More likely an epistolary device in a brutal internecine Christian war.

The historical Ignatius versus the theological Ignatius...I believe the man was martyred, but perhaps some parts were embellished to create a theological persona of true martyrdom.

Or perhaps it is true and we have little faith about it.  And its truth seems to lie on the fact that many people today repeat this story in themselves.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 01:40:15 PM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

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Frankly Ignatius' story sounds more like  pure literature than history. It just doesn't add up .
I have doubts he's a historical character. More likely an epistolary device in a brutal internecine Christian war.

The historical Ignatius versus the theological Ignatius...I believe the man was martyred, but perhaps some parts were embellished to create a theological persona of true martyrdom.

Or perhaps it is true and we have little faith about it.  And its truth seems to lie on the fact that many people today repeat this story in themselves.

Oh Mina, don't you know?  All of this is fake. 
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline minasoliman

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If so, I should be most pitied  :P
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Online Mor Ephrem

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If so, I should be most pitied  :P

It's just old men in Cairo trying to tell you what you can and cannot do with YOUR body.  Don't fall for the lies!
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2017, 12:52:58 AM »
Enough political correctness

We have believed the lie we should fear offending violent people such as practising Muslim extremists and truthful free speech suppressors
I hate to side with a Jew against Muslims and paint them all as bad Jews  shouldn’t try to make this a war that their religion is better but Muslims have no right to threaten a Jew.
But to practice the religion of Islam as Mohammed intended in our opinion would lead to terrorism but thank God because not all people embrace Islam Muslims are convincing themselves by being convicted by us that Mohammed never taught terrorism. But we can’t assume this will continue
 
Jesus said not to fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul you have to speak the truth it is what got jesus killed. Though 10 thousand were to rise against me I will be confident either God will punish them or make me bold with strength
A Christian will be protected by God if it is His will our hairs are numbered otherwise He may think us ready for martyrdom. A sinful Christian practising must however fear but even as God remembers the sparrow is he also protected according to God will if He can repent and it is not the time of his judgement

I am not asking people to kill me so I am not commiting suicide jesus told Judas to betray him because He knew Judas would and He couldn’t stop him without compromising who jesus is and what He teaches.

Jesus was sorrowful about Judas betrayal because it would lead to his eternal condemnation because though he may have had a little time to repent he probably didn’t use it and it is a bit harder to repent

So any Muslim who wants to follow Mohammed that you will instill terror in us we do not fear

We ask you stay away from our loved ones and warn you will be judged but we have a duty to confess jesus name before men without fear

If you manage to cripple me and make me deny even peter denied do not rejoice over me my enemy for I will arise
I will resist it though as though my soul depends on it if I am not given chance to repent but I don’t think you will be able to make me deny but it will be a lesson to me but I won’t change my faith and I won’t regret what I did it would keep me more from this world

However many Christians should probably be silent because sometimes words of condemnation are not needed and be afraid if you have hatred towards anyone
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 12:56:30 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Volnutt

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2017, 01:00:47 AM »
Huh? What Jew are you talking about? And who brought Muslims into the topic?
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2017, 01:07:54 AM »
There is a Jew I should mention but I won’t he is on Facebook threatened by a Muslim and I condemned Australian government for rejecting to have him before court to defend him against this person.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 01:14:13 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Volnutt

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2017, 01:09:04 AM »
There is a Jew I should mention but I won’t he is on Facebook threatened by a Muslim and I condemned Australian government for rejecting to have him before court

Lord have mercy.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2017, 07:14:51 AM »
There is a Jew I should mention but I won’t he is on Facebook threatened by a Muslim and I condemned Australian government for rejecting to have him before court to defend him against this person.

I was threatened by a Muslim on Facebook. Where's my hearing?
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2017, 07:16:34 AM »
Frankly Ignatius' story sounds more like  pure literature than history. It just doesn't add up .
I have doubts he's a historical character. More likely an epistolary device in a brutal internecine Christian war.

I don't get it. Ignatius comes, Ignatius dies. Nothing too fantastical about that. It happens to people all of the time.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2017, 07:39:09 AM »
Frankly Ignatius' story sounds more like  pure literature than history. It just doesn't add up .
I have doubts he's a historical character. More likely an epistolary device in a brutal internecine Christian war.

I don't get it. Ignatius comes, Ignatius dies. Nothing too fantastical about that. It happens to people all of the time.

Quote
From Syria even to Rome I fight with wild beasts, by land and sea, by night and by day, being bound amidst ten leopards, even a company of soldiers, who only grow worse when they are kindly treated.

— Ignatius to the Romans, 5.

Sounds a bit hyperbolic, but I agree it doesn't preclude an historical core. But I don't think there's a lot of actual evidence that any Christian was ever thrown to wild beasts at the Colosseum (maybe in provincial arenas as per Tertullian).
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2017, 07:49:42 AM »
Frankly Ignatius' story sounds more like  pure literature than history. It just doesn't add up .
I have doubts he's a historical character. More likely an epistolary device in a brutal internecine Christian war.

I don't get it. Ignatius comes, Ignatius dies. Nothing too fantastical about that. It happens to people all of the time.

Quote
From Syria even to Rome I fight with wild beasts, by land and sea, by night and by day, being bound amidst ten leopards, even a company of soldiers, who only grow worse when they are kindly treated.

— Ignatius to the Romans, 5.

Sounds a bit hyperbolic, but I agree it doesn't preclude an historical core. But I don't think there's a lot of actual evidence that any Christian was ever thrown to wild beasts at the Colosseum (maybe in provincial arenas as per Tertullian).

Hyperbole, but I see nothing too supernatural here. No Christians were thrown into a Colosseum? I find that unlikely, I think that it's certainly not above what the Romans did, and it's certainly not outside the bounds of human nature.

I listen to things which are hard to believe every day, yet they happen. So, I'm pretty open minded with what is possible in the world.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2017, 07:55:19 AM »
There is a Jew I should mention but I won’t he is on Facebook threatened by a Muslim and I condemned Australian government for rejecting to have him before court to defend him against this person.

I was threatened by a Muslim on Facebook. Where's my hearing?

Did you ask for one ? If you did I would support you

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2017, 08:03:24 AM »
There is a Jew I should mention but I won’t he is on Facebook threatened by a Muslim and I condemned Australian government for rejecting to have him before court to defend him against this person.

I was threatened by a Muslim on Facebook. Where's my hearing?

Did you ask for one ? If you did I would support you

No, I get over it. I'm not a snowflake. Let them come.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2017, 08:15:20 AM »
Frankly Ignatius' story sounds more like  pure literature than history. It just doesn't add up .
I have doubts he's a historical character. More likely an epistolary device in a brutal internecine Christian war.

I don't get it. Ignatius comes, Ignatius dies. Nothing too fantastical about that. It happens to people all of the time.

Quote
From Syria even to Rome I fight with wild beasts, by land and sea, by night and by day, being bound amidst ten leopards, even a company of soldiers, who only grow worse when they are kindly treated.

— Ignatius to the Romans, 5.

Sounds a bit hyperbolic, but I agree it doesn't preclude an historical core. But I don't think there's a lot of actual evidence that any Christian was ever thrown to wild beasts at the Colosseum (maybe in provincial arenas as per Tertullian).

Hyperbole, but I see nothing too supernatural here. No Christians were thrown into a Colosseum? I find that unlikely, I think that it's certainly not above what the Romans did, and it's certainly not outside the bounds of human nature.

I listen to things which are hard to believe every day, yet they happen. So, I'm pretty open minded with what is possible in the world.

The question is not "would they have?" I mean, Tacitus tells us that Nero used Christians as lamps, so you're absolutely right that it could have happen. But the question is, "Did it happen?"

Given how sporadic and regional Pre-Decius persecutions were, it's entirely possible that the opportunity just never came up.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 08:15:51 AM by Volnutt »
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2017, 08:33:48 AM »
Frankly Ignatius' story sounds more like  pure literature than history. It just doesn't add up .
I have doubts he's a historical character. More likely an epistolary device in a brutal internecine Christian war.

I don't get it. Ignatius comes, Ignatius dies. Nothing too fantastical about that. It happens to people all of the time.

Quote
From Syria even to Rome I fight with wild beasts, by land and sea, by night and by day, being bound amidst ten leopards, even a company of soldiers, who only grow worse when they are kindly treated.

— Ignatius to the Romans, 5.

Sounds a bit hyperbolic, but I agree it doesn't preclude an historical core. But I don't think there's a lot of actual evidence that any Christian was ever thrown to wild beasts at the Colosseum (maybe in provincial arenas as per Tertullian).

Hyperbole, but I see nothing too supernatural here. No Christians were thrown into a Colosseum? I find that unlikely, I think that it's certainly not above what the Romans did, and it's certainly not outside the bounds of human nature.

I listen to things which are hard to believe every day, yet they happen. So, I'm pretty open minded with what is possible in the world.

The question is not "would they have?" I mean, Tacitus tells us that Nero used Christians as lamps, so you're absolutely right that it could have happen. But the question is, "Did it happen?"

Given how sporadic and regional Pre-Decius persecutions were, it's entirely possible that the opportunity just never came up.

lol If we're going to talk about metaphysics or epistemology, we'll be here until the end of time. There's no way to prove anything happens or happened. We just accept for practical and pragmatic reasons that things exist as they are and move on. We build hypotheses to explain reality as we observe it, but our observations are all subjective and therefore subject to human error. Until you can define what it means to be, to happen etc. there's no reason to claim something did or didn't happen. For all intents and purposes, nothing happened, nothing happens, we're all just imaging this. I just saved you years of epistemic problems in philosophy.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 08:35:48 AM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2017, 10:51:24 AM »
Frankly Ignatius' story sounds more like  pure literature than history. It just doesn't add up .
I have doubts he's a historical character. More likely an epistolary device in a brutal internecine Christian war.

I don't get it. Ignatius comes, Ignatius dies. Nothing too fantastical about that. It happens to people all of the time.

Quote
From Syria even to Rome I fight with wild beasts, by land and sea, by night and by day, being bound amidst ten leopards, even a company of soldiers, who only grow worse when they are kindly treated.

— Ignatius to the Romans, 5.

Sounds a bit hyperbolic, but I agree it doesn't preclude an historical core.

The beasts seem to be the soldiers...  I don't think St. Ignatius is claiming to be a lion whisperer (or at least his letters never struck me as those kind of hagiographical stories which later became so prevalent).

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2017, 02:30:57 AM »
There is a Jew I should mention but I won’t he is on Facebook threatened by a Muslim and I condemned Australian government for rejecting to have him before court to defend him against this person.

I was threatened by a Muslim on Facebook. Where's my hearing?

Did you ask for one ? If you did I would support you

No, I get over it. I'm not a snowflake. Let them come.

Was Paul a snowflake who defended himself in Roman court ?
He did not fear death but he still tried to be delivered
This person I am taking about does not resist debate. And if that is not true but if it was what if he is still threatened like Paul ? Would the church do well to not even try to get him delivered if it is in their power ? And we must defend sinners and want mercy for them not them to be pay for their sins
We don’t want death for speaking the truth but we are willing to die for it
Do not put the Lord to the test
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 02:41:20 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Volnutt

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2017, 03:04:38 AM »
Frankly Ignatius' story sounds more like  pure literature than history. It just doesn't add up .
I have doubts he's a historical character. More likely an epistolary device in a brutal internecine Christian war.

I don't get it. Ignatius comes, Ignatius dies. Nothing too fantastical about that. It happens to people all of the time.

Quote
From Syria even to Rome I fight with wild beasts, by land and sea, by night and by day, being bound amidst ten leopards, even a company of soldiers, who only grow worse when they are kindly treated.

— Ignatius to the Romans, 5.

Sounds a bit hyperbolic, but I agree it doesn't preclude an historical core. But I don't think there's a lot of actual evidence that any Christian was ever thrown to wild beasts at the Colosseum (maybe in provincial arenas as per Tertullian).

Hyperbole, but I see nothing too supernatural here. No Christians were thrown into a Colosseum? I find that unlikely, I think that it's certainly not above what the Romans did, and it's certainly not outside the bounds of human nature.

I listen to things which are hard to believe every day, yet they happen. So, I'm pretty open minded with what is possible in the world.

The question is not "would they have?" I mean, Tacitus tells us that Nero used Christians as lamps, so you're absolutely right that it could have happen. But the question is, "Did it happen?"

Given how sporadic and regional Pre-Decius persecutions were, it's entirely possible that the opportunity just never came up.

lol If we're going to talk about metaphysics or epistemology, we'll be here until the end of time. There's no way to prove anything happens or happened. We just accept for practical and pragmatic reasons that things exist as they are and move on. We build hypotheses to explain reality as we observe it, but our observations are all subjective and therefore subject to human error. Until you can define what it means to be, to happen etc. there's no reason to claim something did or didn't happen. For all intents and purposes, nothing happened, nothing happens, we're all just imaging this. I just saved you years of epistemic problems in philosophy.

Good thing I'm not talking about metaphysics or epistemology, but historical plausibility in absence of clear documentary evidence.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2017, 03:05:14 AM »
Frankly Ignatius' story sounds more like  pure literature than history. It just doesn't add up .
I have doubts he's a historical character. More likely an epistolary device in a brutal internecine Christian war.

I don't get it. Ignatius comes, Ignatius dies. Nothing too fantastical about that. It happens to people all of the time.

Quote
From Syria even to Rome I fight with wild beasts, by land and sea, by night and by day, being bound amidst ten leopards, even a company of soldiers, who only grow worse when they are kindly treated.

— Ignatius to the Romans, 5.

Sounds a bit hyperbolic, but I agree it doesn't preclude an historical core.

The beasts seem to be the soldiers...  I don't think St. Ignatius is claiming to be a lion whisperer (or at least his letters never struck me as those kind of hagiographical stories which later became so prevalent).

Ah. Maybe you're right.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2017, 03:07:52 AM »
There is a Jew I should mention but I won’t he is on Facebook threatened by a Muslim and I condemned Australian government for rejecting to have him before court to defend him against this person.

I was threatened by a Muslim on Facebook. Where's my hearing?

Did you ask for one ? If you did I would support you

No, I get over it. I'm not a snowflake. Let them come.

Was Paul a snowflake who defended himself in Roman court ?
He did not fear death but he still tried to be delivered
This person I am taking about does not resist debate. And if that is not true but if it was what if he is still threatened like Paul ? Would the church do well to not even try to get him delivered if it is in their power ? And we must defend sinners and want mercy for them not them to be pay for their sins
We don’t want death for speaking the truth but we are willing to die for it
Do not put the Lord to the test

I'm not sure there's anything the church can do for him. You can encourage him to call (Australia's equivalent of) the FBI Cybercrimes division and maybe request police protection if he feels he's in immediate danger, but that's about it.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 03:08:27 AM by Volnutt »
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2017, 08:19:49 AM »
I don’t know why millions are being slaughtered in other countries I know I can not throw myself or seek martyrdom for that is suicide and they will be judged who seek my death but I prefer to give the poor what is mine and I be slaughtered instead of them if I am responsible by my sins I don’t believe by my teaching but I may soil my teaching by my sins. I want the Lord to arrange this not man.
By my cutting off or being brought into heaven I believe God wrath may be stilled and He hear my prayers as maybe they were needed to die to awaken my attention and pray for me

I have backing for my lack of fear by Tertullian but as he may not be a saint I don’t know how reliable he is. This is from a writing titled Persecution as a Purging Fire

Persecution as a Purging Fire.

Tertullian:
Do you not know that God is Lord of all? And if it is God’s will, then you shall suffer persecution; but if it is not, the heathen will be still. 
On Flight in Time of Persecution 3.


According to Tertullian some times we are not innocent and need testing. Therefore according to him you can not blame me for church suffering more persecution as He will prevent it if it is not His will so long as we are not seeking martyrdom but we go to church not because we want to die but we have to to be righteous and for righteousness sake. So we must not seek martyrdom but not fear if it comes. We must be prepared for it.
I should try all possible to escape so I am not a pacifist I don’t know what to think of that but I seek to be ready to die.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 08:22:18 AM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2017, 06:29:44 PM »
According to Tertullian some times we are not innocent and need testing. Therefore according to him you can not blame me for church suffering more persecution as He will prevent it if it is not His will so long as we are not seeking martyrdom but we go to church not because we want to die but we have to to be righteous and for righteousness sake. So we must not seek martyrdom but not fear if it comes. We must be prepared for it.
I should try all possible to escape so I am not a pacifist I don’t know what to think of that but I seek to be ready to die.

I mean true martyrdom is going to church for righteousness sake not because we want to die

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2017, 07:05:23 PM »
Still it is not absolved when the heathen kill the martyrs cry out for justice as said in revelations
There is no permission to kill. They shall be judged who kill especially the weak


Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2017, 07:27:13 PM »
Some wish for martyrdom  the strong they are most blessed they ask God to use them for righteousness sake. As Stephen who said charge them not for this sin.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 07:30:28 PM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2017, 07:45:46 PM »
Time limit passed I meant to add
For killing the weak I wanted to say as long as one has breath every sin is forgivable but one may die in his sin but there is what is called filling up the cup of your sins if you got your chances which can fill up fast by intentional sin. If he repents by force because he was slain by the Lord judgement not from his heart he doesn’t feel sorry except for himself it is not accepted and even if he is sorry I don’t know. Atleast it is not promised then
The bible says nor let us tempt Christ and in one day 23000 fell
That is Don’t test God forgiveness
King David said they even cried to the Lord but the Lord did not hear in a psalm
Hate can not drive out hate so I may be teaching wrong every true repentance is accepted if one is truly sorry but it is harder to feel sorry when sin intentionally or you may die without offering repentance if you delayed because every delay makes it harder
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 07:56:17 PM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2017, 08:01:54 PM »
Time limit passed I meant to add
For killing the weak I wanted to say as long as one has breath every sin is forgivable but one may die in his sin but there is what is called filling up the cup of your sins if you got your chances which can fill up fast by intentional sin. If he repents by force because he was slain by the Lord judgement not from his heart he doesn’t feel sorry except for himself it is not accepted and even if he is sorry I don’t know. Atleast it is not promised then
The bible says nor let us tempt Christ and in one day 23000 fell
That is Don’t test God forgiveness
King David said they even cried to the Lord but the Lord did not hear in a psalm
Hate can not drive out hate so I may be teaching wrong every true repentance is accepted if one is truly sorry but it is harder to feel sorry when sin intentionally or you may die without offering repentance if you delayed because every delay makes it harder

It may be a bit wrong for the Lord stilll desires their salvation
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 08:05:11 PM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2017, 08:24:34 PM »
Why are the heathen not still then to those who are weak but innocent people which the Lord does not will their persecution ?
Because the Lord gave free will. I think tertullian meant only those persecuted who need repentance
If God wills their purging they shall suffer if they repent He protects them lest they die in their sin
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 08:28:05 PM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2018, 12:40:58 AM »
There is no mercy for unrepentant murderers. The punishment of murder as jesus said he who says to his brother Raca is in danger of court how much more murder it is to be destroyed as jesus said he who takes the sword shall perish by the sword. If the person is not truly sorry he will not be saved and most who murder are not so they will go to hell. If God only wishes some will be spared such as st moses the black and Cain I mean God will preserve them alive even if one tries to kill them  or he will forgive whoever he thinks deserves forgiveness
Cain was maybe forgiven for whatever reason he was the first sinner born out of sin and maybe st moses the black never knew about Christ nor could he before that. God kept him alive for whatever reason I know he knew his heart but many others God knows their heart and still they must perish by the sword

Cain did not inherit eternal life for presumably he was never sorry or maybe he was forgiven because he did not know better so was kept alive but he did not repent so perished
God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy and no one who is not genuinely sorry will be saved for even if they cry to the Lord He will not hear and they lose their chances after murder for many

As proverbs says do not walk with murderers for they are cast in the pit they tried to put people in

Psalm 63:9-10 (NKJV)
9 But those who seek my life, to destroy it,
Shall go into the lower parts of the earth.
10 They shall fall by the sword
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 12:42:50 AM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2018, 12:45:26 AM »
Below is a devotional I read which is helpful but it is important to remember Isaiah 40:31 if that is the way we get tiny faith but that is got by long waiting on the Lord as David says in many psalms and as he said in one psalm which is wait on the Lord be of good courage and He shall strengthen your heart. Wait I say on the Lord. The tiny mustard seed of faith can be given to those who never had the chance to read or whom the Lord thinks is fair but for the rest they must wait on the Lord until He has mercy on us and gives us that tiny seed of faith

Isaiah 40:31
But those who wait on the Lord Shall renew their strength; They shall mount up with wings like eagles, They shall run and not be weary,They shall walk and not faint.

Lamentations 3:25-30
25 The Lord is good to those who wait for Him,
To the soul who seeks Him.
26 It is good that one should hope and wait quietly For the salvation of the Lord.
27 It is good for a man to bear
The yoke in his youth.
28 Let him sit alone and keep silent,
Because God has laid it on him;
29 Let him put his mouth in the dust—
There may yet be hope.
30 Let him give his cheek to the one who strikes him,
And be full of reproach.

Psalm 34:12-16
12 Who is the man who desires life,
And loves many days, that he may see good?
13 Keep your tongue from evil,
And your lips from speaking deceit.
14 Depart from evil and do good;
Seek peace and pursue it.
15 The eyes of the Lord are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their cry.
16 The face of the Lord is against those who do evil,
To cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.

Therefore from lamentations and psalm 34 it seems we should grow in our spirituality to not have to be on forums (but maybe it is okay if we have not grown or maybe we should all be off forums) as we use it to console ourselves instead of the Lord we should not be preachers if we do so for wrong reasons such as pride or even maybe we should not mostly or at all since our reasons can all be wrong and it may not be helpful and we have to accept injustice without revenge for dignity sake to accept the world to not understand our way without speaking back unless necessary if it may be sometimes for truth that others may fear. We should not indulge in sin or indulge in excess of lawful things especially with an evil conscience because to the unbelieving nothing is pure because they do while they think it is sin. Because we are not waiting for the Lord if we try to console ourselves with worldly things. As psalm 34 says we should not speak deceit though we speak the truth about jesus as jesus says you can prophesy in His name truth but be worker of iniquity that is if we turn people off by our words or behaviour the deceit is then that God would behave that way towards them

We should be working silently out our salvation with work God gave us to do like Noah. He told them only while they asked why he was building the ark. He did not go forth trying to preach and embarrassing ourselves in the process with people silence as if to mock trampling it under their feet by not acceoting your message because you seem not serious if you are seeking likes on facebook and because you preach without having wisdom to know when God has opened their heart and opened a door for you  and all the while preaching has taken away time spent for your own spirituality

Paul did say to Timothy preach in season and out of season but that was his job and/or because he reached a level of spirituality and trustworthiness where he can do that

This was the devotional for a day which I found helpful

Read Luke 17:5-6

5 The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!” 6 The Lord replied, “If you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you. (NRSV)

Most of us would like to have more faith. But the question is, what does ‘more faith’ mean? The disciples wanted increased faith and Jesus’ reply is enlightening. He seems to question their question. Faith is not about quantity as if we can measure it or top it up. A tiny mustard-seed quantity of faith is sufficient. The quality of our faith is linked to its object. I may have a lot of faith in my ability to flap my arms and fly but that faith does me no good. I may have a tiny amount of faith in God’s ability to empower me to stand up under trial, and that faith will do me good. Because the object is sound my faith is sound. Beware of examining your own level of faith. It is actually an examination of your feelings about faith. Faith has more to do with what God is doing than with what you are feeling at any given time. Having a cold or being tired or experiencing a heatwave can affect our feelings about our faith. Hormones can play havoc with how we feel about our faith. The key issue is how attentive we are to God, how well we grasp the character of God, how discerning we are as to what he is doing. As the old saying goes, we don’t need great faith in God, but rather faith in a great God.

Blessings David Reay

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2018, 12:46:12 AM »
Should I never post here because of maybe another terror attack ? Do I cause it ?
So should we not preach jesus at all to prevent terror attacks?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 12:53:12 AM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2018, 01:33:35 AM »
Read Acts 2:42-47 42

They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. (NIV)

Churches and individual Christians are rightly concerned about evangelism: the sharing of the good news of Jesus with those who may not yet have heard or accepted it. If we don’t do any of that, church can become a cosy religious club and individuals can become insular and see their faith as a purely private thing designed to help them with life. If we reckon Christianity is as good as it says it is, then it is natural to want to share it around. However, the key to effective faith sharing is healthy church life and healthy personal life. If I think church is a waste of time, if Jesus is only on the margins of my life, then there is little incentive to share. Rushing into numerous evangelistic programmes and events will not produce the fruit we seek. The early church seemed to attract people out of the quality of its internal life. Some would say that the first priority of a church pastor or minister is to evangelise. It is not. The first task is to so equip and enthuse the people of God that they can fruitfully share their faith. Give them something to share before asking them to share. A healthy church produces healthy witnesses. Or as one writer puts it, God doesn’t put healthy babies in sick incubators. Blessings David Reay

Offline Volnutt

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2018, 12:19:46 PM »
Should I never post here because of maybe another terror attack ? Do I cause it ?
So should we not preach jesus at all to prevent terror attacks?
Quote from: Luke 19:39-40
But some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Him, “Teacher, rebuke Your disciples!” “I tell you, He answered, “if they remain silent, the very stones will cry out.”

The truth will always overcome human evil. We should never fear its proclamation. "...greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world."1 John 4:4
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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2018, 02:21:17 AM »
Should I never post here because of maybe another terror attack ? Do I cause it ?
So should we not preach jesus at all to prevent terror attacks?
Quote from: Luke 19:39-40
But some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Him, “Teacher, rebuke Your disciples!” “I tell you, He answered, “if they remain silent, the very stones will cry out.”

The truth will always overcome human evil. We should never fear its proclamation. "...greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world."1 John 4:4

Thanks dear volnutt :)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 02:22:30 AM by mikeforjesus »

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2018, 07:58:09 AM »
I read this post
https://tasbeha.org/community/discussion/comment/166770/#Comment_166770

I feel bad to read and quote Protestants but I may not agree with the poster because if you ask others to look into orthodoxy you have to look into other too and choose for yourself which is the most biblical way clearing seeing what Protestant lacks its errors and lack of the holy communion

I have read that post because I want to know why orthodox demonise me for listening to protestant sermons. I mostly listen not because I believe they have anything Orthodox don’t have but I am willing to put that to test and confirm as Elijah showed the people the error of Baal but maybe some teachers minister some of God’s truth more than some orthodox and we may call orthodox teachers who teach orthodox truth protestants but I listen to learn how I would approach others why the Protestant teachers appeal to others and to see the good people have accepted in the world

I want to repent and maybe listen to only orthodox but I have to be convinced the sin about reading if I have infact influenced others to stay Protestant if we are in need of them but as I believe it is good to show we are not biased because they might respect that I don’t know

I want others to repent because do not rejoice over me when I fall I may arise though it is not good to sin wilfully so worry about only your own salvation
I say sin wilfully because I need encouragement to arise for when can I arise if sin is a big deal

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy1owQVh-NY

I think I may arise if I quietly draw near to God but I worry about those I mislead if I quietly do so will God not allow them to be mislead ? If such is the case there is nothing wrong with listening to protestant things if I keep it private if they don’t know I am listening

« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 08:09:35 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Volnutt

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Re: St ignatius seems reliable if he was in fact a disciple of St. John
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2018, 08:33:34 AM »
Well, obviously I can't speak to your central dilemma because it would likely make me a hypocrite no matter what I said lol.

I guess I'll just say that there's a difference between reading/listening to Protestant devotional material or fluff pieces, as the OP on Tesbeha was asking, and reading Protestant theology/apologetics if you want to look into their beliefs (Which I'm not saying you should. I wouldn't even want to proselytize you if I could seeing as how I'm more or less only nominally Protestant these days in most respects).

It is good in general to make sure of your path and look down other roads, I guess. Though obviously this has limits. For example, I have no desire to read a bunch of Stormfront articles even if a Neo-Nazi thinks I'm therefore giving his beliefs the short shrift.

Personally, I don't think rank and file Protestant literature is worth your time, though. If you want a general idea of things, just supplement your Orthodox reading with general Christian philosophy like CS Lewis or Alvin Plantinga or John Polkinghorne (though those might also be too Protestant for some folks in that thread?) and well regarded more or less neutral historians like Dhiarmid MacCulloch and Jaroslav Pelikan. Shouldn't be too hard to have a fair enough picture of Orthodoxy and Protestantism relative to one another after that (well, at least EO, maybe not so much with OO).
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 08:40:22 AM by Volnutt »
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