Author Topic: Is kissing sinful?  (Read 1875 times)

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Offline RaphaCam

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Is kissing sinful?
« on: April 13, 2016, 05:01:33 PM »
It seems Pope Alexander VIII condemned kissing for pleasure among the unmarried as a mortal sin, even if no further sexual activity is possible... I had never thought about this matter, what would you tell from an Orthodox POV? A friend asked a priest and he basically answered it was only sinful if sexual passions were flamed.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2016, 06:50:48 PM »
Is the Holy Kiss a sin?
Naw.
But a kiss may be a precursor to what one's lustful heart desires, and such a desire when entertained, well....the sweetness and goodness of eros can become twisted.
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Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2016, 07:05:11 PM »
Well, once you round first base, it's hard to stop yourself from reaching second. And so on.

Seriously, though, I think it depends on context. There are plenty of cultures where kissing (sometimes even on the lips!) is not necessarily a sexual act and may have other meaning or significance.

It's not the kissing itself, but the feelings or passions behind it that might be hard to stop the longer you indulge them.

Similarly, using a punching bag to exercise isn't a sin in itself, but what if you tape a picture of your boss's face on it? You might get used to the idea of "punching your boss" and the next time he yells at you you might actually do it without thinking. And then you'll be in big trouble.
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Offline Luke

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2016, 07:13:55 PM »
If each participant has braces, there could be a problem. :-X :P

Offline Theophania

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2016, 07:21:57 PM »
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2016, 09:39:42 PM »
There are those cultures where kissing in the mouth isn't intimate (in the couples' sense) at all, but I was wondering about that context exactly. I myself don't think it is mostly sexual in contemporary Western culture, more like an intimate greeting if there isn't this whole "we are in first base" feeling (which is what a teenager "dating around" looks for). It certainly wasn't like that in Pope Alexander's time, although I wouldn't bother to try to convince a "rad trad Cath" of that.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2016, 10:08:06 PM »

Well....there's kissing...and then there's "kissing". 

Pascha is a great opportunity to kiss anyone and everyone Orthodox...with nobody getting the "wrong" idea.  It's an innocent expression of joy.

I love how our traditions allow for this expression of love and celebration.   Sometimes you're afraid of giving the wrong impression...and some are even nervous about shaking hands with the opposite gender....but, on Pascha...we all giggle and let loose!

...it's also a great opportunity for the young adults to get in a peck or two or three with that someone they've had their eye on for a while....kind of break the ice.

There's nothing wrong with an innocent kiss.  We kiss the Cross, we kiss icons, we kiss our parents, our friends, siblings...and some even kiss their pets.

It's all in the intent.


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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2016, 10:25:46 PM »
It seems Pope Alexander VIII condemned kissing for pleasure among the unmarried as a mortal sin, even if no further sexual activity is possible... I had never thought about this matter, what would you tell from an Orthodox POV? A friend asked a priest and he basically answered it was only sinful if sexual passions were flamed.

Well, if a Roman pontiff condemned it, surely we Orthodox must, too.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2016, 10:39:35 PM »
It seems Pope Alexander VIII condemned kissing for pleasure among the unmarried as a mortal sin, even if no further sexual activity is possible... I had never thought about this matter, what would you tell from an Orthodox POV? A friend asked a priest and he basically answered it was only sinful if sexual passions were flamed.

Well, if a Roman pontiff condemned it, surely we Orthodox must, too.
Just introducing the topic, sir. :P
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2016, 12:01:02 AM »
It seems Pope Alexander VIII condemned kissing for pleasure among the unmarried
I don't think anyone kisses "for pleasure," nor do we do anything "for pleasure." That would be incredibly complicated.

So short answer: No.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 12:03:20 AM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2016, 12:31:48 AM »
"For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth..."
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2016, 12:43:01 AM »
It seems Pope Alexander VIII condemned kissing for pleasure among the unmarried
I don't think anyone kisses "for pleasure," nor do we do anything "for pleasure." That would be incredibly complicated.
So short answer: No.

¿¿ Ummmm !!!
I'll get back to you...it'll be about the word "pleasure" and a certain POV.
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2016, 12:54:40 AM »
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Offline Indocern

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2016, 06:51:38 AM »
It seems Pope Alexander VIII condemned kissing for pleasure among the unmarried as a mortal sin, even if no further sexual activity is possible... I had never thought about this matter, what would you tell from an Orthodox POV? A friend asked a priest and he basically answered it was only sinful if sexual passions were flamed.

In my opinion love kissing is a sin.

Offline wgw

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2016, 08:22:56 AM »
It seems Pope Alexander VIII condemned kissing for pleasure among the unmarried as a mortal sin, even if no further sexual activity is possible... I had never thought about this matter, what would you tell from an Orthodox POV? A friend asked a priest and he basically answered it was only sinful if sexual passions were flamed.

In my opinion love kissing is a sin.

Is marriage a sin then?   And what do you mean by "love kissing?"  Is not the Pax an expression of love?
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!

Offline wgw

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2016, 08:24:20 AM »

Well....there's kissing...and then there's "kissing". 

Pascha is a great opportunity to kiss anyone and everyone Orthodox...with nobody getting the "wrong" idea.  It's an innocent expression of joy.

I love how our traditions allow for this expression of love and celebration.   Sometimes you're afraid of giving the wrong impression...and some are even nervous about shaking hands with the opposite gender....but, on Pascha...we all giggle and let loose!

...it's also a great opportunity for the young adults to get in a peck or two or three with that someone they've had their eye on for a while....kind of break the ice.

There's nothing wrong with an innocent kiss.  We kiss the Cross, we kiss icons, we kiss our parents, our friends, siblings...and some even kiss their pets.

It's all in the intent.

In the Ukrainian Orthodox Church you all kiss each other on Pascha?  Is this a European style cheek to cheek sort of thing I take it?    In my tradition we do the kiss of peace every Sunday but not on the cheeks in the Armenian style.
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2016, 11:00:04 AM »
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Indocern

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2016, 11:13:23 AM »
It seems Pope Alexander VIII condemned kissing for pleasure among the unmarried as a mortal sin, even if no further sexual activity is possible... I had never thought about this matter, what would you tell from an Orthodox POV? A friend asked a priest and he basically answered it was only sinful if sexual passions were flamed.

In my opinion love kissing is a sin.

Is marriage a sin then?   And what do you mean by "love kissing?"  Is not the Pax an expression of love?

I mean kissing without marriage.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 11:13:43 AM by Indocern »

Offline Elisha

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2016, 11:23:26 AM »
It seems Pope Alexander VIII condemned kissing for pleasure among the unmarried as a mortal sin, even if no further sexual activity is possible... I had never thought about this matter, what would you tell from an Orthodox POV? A friend asked a priest and he basically answered it was only sinful if sexual passions were flamed.

Well, if a Roman pontiff condemned it, surely we Orthodox must, too.
Just introducing the topic, sir. :P

Why "introduce a topic" looking for an absolutist answer when you know it will depend on the context and such?  You're getting the answers the questions deserves.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2016, 01:02:37 PM »

Ge'ez is, after all, the language of love.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2016, 02:45:38 PM »

I used to do this to my pets, it's not sinful but it's really unhygienic. :-X

It seems Pope Alexander VIII condemned kissing for pleasure among the unmarried as a mortal sin, even if no further sexual activity is possible... I had never thought about this matter, what would you tell from an Orthodox POV? A friend asked a priest and he basically answered it was only sinful if sexual passions were flamed.
Well, if a Roman pontiff condemned it, surely we Orthodox must, too.
Just introducing the topic, sir. :P
Why "introduce a topic" looking for an absolutist answer when you know it will depend on the context and such?  You're getting the answers the questions deserves.

Not really looking for one, the priest whose opinion I gave was pretty much  "it's up to your limits". I think the topic is going just fine, too.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 02:47:23 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline CarolS

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2016, 03:33:29 PM »
I grew up in a family where an occasional kiss on the mouth (just a quick peck) was a normal display of affection shared by parents, children, grandparents, etc .
There was nothing sexual about this. However, if you are speaking of the type of kissing you would not want to share with your own brother or grandmother, this might possibly be a sin or could lead one into sin outside of marriage. Why warm up the car engine if you are not planning to drive?
Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2016, 03:51:02 PM »
In the Ukrainian Orthodox Church you all kiss each other on Pascha?  Is this a European style cheek to cheek sort of thing I take it?    In my tradition we do the kiss of peace every Sunday but not on the cheeks in the Armenian style.

Why yes...yes...we do kiss...3 times on alternating cheeks.  ...and we smile and giggle and proclaim the Resurrection of Christ!

We don't really do the weekly kiss of peace in my parish.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline wgw

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2016, 04:52:18 PM »
In the Ukrainian Orthodox Church you all kiss each other on Pascha?  Is this a European style cheek to cheek sort of thing I take it?    In my tradition we do the kiss of peace every Sunday but not on the cheeks in the Armenian style.

Why yes...yes...we do kiss...3 times on alternating cheeks.  ...and we smile and giggle and proclaim the Resurrection of Christ!

We don't really do the weekly kiss of peace in my parish.

Actually straight on the cheek or just cheek to cheek European style?   It sounds like fun either way.  Do they do that in any other jurisdictions?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 04:52:39 PM by wgw »
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2016, 05:02:24 PM »

Well...it's usually a smack on the cheek..

This goes for both men and women.....and if it's a woman...I prefer they NOT leave a blob of lipstick on my cheek.   ....that's why I zero in on the men!  ;)
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2016, 10:51:35 PM »
We always kiss three times to greet in my church. But it's usual education in Rio to kiss twice (except if you're both men, I guess), so it's not weird. Church life basically led me to stare undecidedly at people from outside after the second kiss, actually.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Is kissing sinful?
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2016, 08:44:28 AM »

Well...it's usually a smack on the cheek..

This goes for both men and women.....and if it's a woman...I prefer they NOT leave a blob of lipstick on my cheek.   ....that's why I zero in on the men!  ;)

Anathema for those who put lipstick on the Icon glass as well!
 >:(
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 08:45:09 AM by LenInSebastopol »
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