Author Topic: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey  (Read 1502 times)

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Offline biro

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Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« on: August 16, 2014, 11:05:25 AM »
http://www.dailysabah.com/nation/2014/08/15/historic-monastery-hosts-annual-orthodox-mass

From the article:

Quote
The Orthodox faithful attended the Divine Liturgy at Sümela, a historic monastery in Turkey's Black Sea province of Trabzon, yesterday. The mass was the fifth religious service held since the restoration of the monastery.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2014, 01:48:07 PM »
http://www.dailysabah.com/nation/2014/08/15/historic-monastery-hosts-annual-orthodox-mass

From the article:

Quote
The Orthodox faithful attended the Divine Liturgy at Sümela, a historic monastery in Turkey's Black Sea province of Trabzon, yesterday. The mass was the fifth religious service held since the restoration of the monastery.

Seriously, what is it going to take to get these idiot media types to realize that the Divine Liturgy IS NOT THE SAME THING as a Mass?

Offline Peacemaker

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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2014, 04:46:15 PM »
http://www.dailysabah.com/nation/2014/08/15/historic-monastery-hosts-annual-orthodox-mass

From the article:

Quote
The Orthodox faithful attended the Divine Liturgy at Sümela, a historic monastery in Turkey's Black Sea province of Trabzon, yesterday. The mass was the fifth religious service held since the restoration of the monastery.

Seriously, what is it going to take to get these idiot media types to realize that the Divine Liturgy IS NOT THE SAME THING as a Mass?

I was thinking the same thing  :laugh:
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Online Mor Ephrem

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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2014, 05:38:19 PM »
http://www.dailysabah.com/nation/2014/08/15/historic-monastery-hosts-annual-orthodox-mass

From the article:

Quote
The Orthodox faithful attended the Divine Liturgy at Sümela, a historic monastery in Turkey's Black Sea province of Trabzon, yesterday. The mass was the fifth religious service held since the restoration of the monastery.

Seriously, what is it going to take to get these idiot media types to realize that the Divine Liturgy IS NOT THE SAME THING as a Mass?

Whatever.  Getting agitated over this is silly. 
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2014, 05:39:38 PM »
http://www.dailysabah.com/nation/2014/08/15/historic-monastery-hosts-annual-orthodox-mass

From the article:

Quote
The Orthodox faithful attended the Divine Liturgy at Sümela, a historic monastery in Turkey's Black Sea province of Trabzon, yesterday. The mass was the fifth religious service held since the restoration of the monastery.


Seriously, what is it going to take to get these idiot media types to realize that the Divine Liturgy IS NOT THE SAME THING as a Mass?

I was thinking the same thing  :laugh:

Most unfortunately, I've found that Google Translator renders "Litourgia" to "Mass." Native Greeks have also told me, while they are fully aware that the Eucharistic Service of the Orthodox Church in the Greek language  is the "Thea Litourgia," their common practice is to use "Mass" when communicating in English. A synodal body should advise Google of this error, and should likewise make the Church of Greece aware of this flaw in English language education in Greece. When I encounter this defect on Greek internet fora, where I can, I make note of this problem.
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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2014, 05:41:21 PM »
LOL, so we're going to be silly. 

Why do people object to "Mass" being used to describe the Eucharistic Liturgy of the Orthodox Church? 
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2014, 05:48:06 PM »
Please see:


http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,56511.0.html

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,31277.0.html


for the last two times ( i know there are more just can't find them)  that 'we' have gone around and around on this...

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Offline WPM

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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2014, 05:58:49 PM »
Not realistic for me, I'm not in Turkey or Other Middle Eastern Country but am in the USA.

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2014, 09:43:53 PM »
LOL, so we're going to be silly.  

Why do people object to "Mass" being used to describe the Eucharistic Liturgy of the Orthodox Church?  

Because the term "Mass" is not of Eastern Orthodox Church terminology, but is a term used by non-Orthodox, primarily the Church of Rome, and has a meaning unrelated to the meaning of the Orthodox Divine Liturgy, "the work of the people," while the Roman Church's term means something in Latin related to the conclusion of the service. "Ete massa est," "Go, it is dismissed," although there is some evolutionary meaning to the Church of Rome about going forth in missionary work.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 09:49:52 PM by Basil 320 »
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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2014, 10:23:47 PM »
http://www.dailysabah.com/nation/2014/08/15/historic-monastery-hosts-annual-orthodox-mass

From the article:

Quote
The Orthodox faithful attended the Divine Liturgy at Sümela, a historic monastery in Turkey's Black Sea province of Trabzon, yesterday. The mass was the fifth religious service held since the restoration of the monastery.

Seriously, what is it going to take to get these idiot media types to realize that the Divine Liturgy IS NOT THE SAME THING as a Mass?

Whatever.  Getting agitated over this is silly. 

Yep.

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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2014, 10:27:32 PM »
http://www.dailysabah.com/nation/2014/08/15/historic-monastery-hosts-annual-orthodox-mass

From the article:

Quote
The Orthodox faithful attended the Divine Liturgy at Sümela, a historic monastery in Turkey's Black Sea province of Trabzon, yesterday. The mass was the fifth religious service held since the restoration of the monastery.

Seriously, what is it going to take to get these idiot media types to realize that the Divine Liturgy IS NOT THE SAME THING as a Mass?

Whatever.  Getting agitated over this is silly.  

It's one thing if people in an Orthodox setting interchange the terms, but it's really a distinction that passes over the heads of others and to make a fuss trying to explain it to non inquirers isn't worth the effort.

« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 10:37:47 PM by podkarpatska »

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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2014, 10:40:43 PM »
LOL, so we're going to be silly.  

Why do people object to "Mass" being used to describe the Eucharistic Liturgy of the Orthodox Church?  

Because the term "Mass" is not of Eastern Orthodox Church terminology, but is a term used by non-Orthodox, primarily the Church of Rome, and has a meaning unrelated to the meaning of the Orthodox Divine Liturgy, "the work of the people," while the Roman Church's term means something in Latin related to the conclusion of the service. "Ete massa est," "Go, it is dismissed," although there is some evolutionary meaning to the Church of Rome about going forth in missionary work.

I could argue, among other things, that the word "Liturgy" has undergone (d)evolution in Orthodox usage, and I wouldn't be too far off the mark, but why bother? 

Podkarpatska:

It's one thing if people in an Orthodox setting interchange the terms, but it's really a distinction that passes over the heads of others and to make a fuss trying to explain it to non inquirers isn't worth the effort.
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Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2014, 09:09:03 AM »
This is the silliest nitpicking quibble I have seen in a long time. And I have heard one hieromonk on more than one occasion say, "And now it is time to go and celebrate the Russian Mass". ???

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2014, 01:42:09 PM »
LOL, so we're going to be silly.  

Why do people object to "Mass" being used to describe the Eucharistic Liturgy of the Orthodox Church?  

Because the term "Mass" is not of Eastern Orthodox Church terminology, but is a term used by non-Orthodox, primarily the Church of Rome, and has a meaning unrelated to the meaning of the Orthodox Divine Liturgy, "the work of the people," while the Roman Church's term means something in Latin related to the conclusion of the service. "Ete massa est," "Go, it is dismissed," although there is some evolutionary meaning to the Church of Rome about going forth in missionary work.

It's actually, "Ite, missa est."

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2014, 04:00:19 PM »
This is the silliest nitpicking quibble I have seen in a long time. And I have heard one hieromonk on more than one occasion say, "And now it is time to go and celebrate the Russian Mass". ???

I disagree.  It's important to make distinctions.  The mass is not the same thing as the Divine Liturgy.  They're two different rites and we should correct people when they use the incorrect term.

A question to Byzantine Rite Catholics:  Do you call it mass or Divine Liturgy?  Please elaborate.

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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2014, 04:15:27 PM »
This is the silliest nitpicking quibble I have seen in a long time. And I have heard one hieromonk on more than one occasion say, "And now it is time to go and celebrate the Russian Mass". ???

I disagree.  It's important to make distinctions.  The mass is not the same thing as the Divine Liturgy.  They're two different rites and we should correct people when they use the incorrect term.

A question to Byzantine Rite Catholics:  Do you call it mass or Divine Liturgy?  Please elaborate.

How are you using "rite" in the examples above?  Please elabourate.
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Re: Divine Liturgy at Sümela Monastery, Turkey
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2014, 06:33:03 PM »
Yes, a Roman Catholic Mass and an Eastern Christian Byzantine rite Divine Liturgy are two different things. But in essence they can be viewed as different ritual expressions serving a similar purpose in both traditions, whether some Orthodox, so conditioned by anti-Papalism or some Roman Catholics, full of arguments about infallibility and the Pope, want to admit it or not.

While somewhat simplistic, this article outlines the differences and similarities between the Mass and the Divine Liturgy. "Comparison of the Roman Catholic Mass with the Eastern Orthodox Divine Liturgy"  http://interchristianos.blogspot.com/2010/07/comparison-of-roman-catholic-mass-with.html

The author makes this observation, and I would argue that he is close to the point here, "it seems to me that the differences between the Roman and Byzantine liturgies is not theological at the most basic level (they both see the liturgy as a proclamation of God’s Word and as a reception of Christ’s body and blood made present on the altar), but rather a divergence, to some extent, of the focal metaphors for the liturgy. To phrase it differently, the different theological emphases of these two traditions are centered more on the why and how of the liturgy (i.e., its particular form) than the what of the liturgy (i.e., its essence)."

« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 06:37:58 PM by podkarpatska »