Author Topic: Psalm 136 (or 137)  (Read 2399 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Donna Rose

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 937
Psalm 136 (or 137)
« on: March 07, 2005, 10:19:53 PM »
Lament over the Destruction of Jerusalem

1  By the rivers of Babylon--
         there we sat down and there we wept
         when we remembered Zion.
 2  On the willows there
         we hung up our harps.
 3  For there our captors
         asked us for songs,
     and our tormentors asked for mirth, saying,
         "Sing us one of the songs of Zion!"

 4  How could we sing the LORD's song
         in a foreign land?
 5  If I forget you, O Jerusalem,
         let my right hand wither!
 6  Let my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth,
         if I do not remember you,
     if I do not set Jerusalem
         above my highest joy.

 7  Remember, O LORD, against the Edomites
         the day of Jerusalem's fall,
     how they said, "Tear it down! Tear it down!
         Down to its foundations!"
 8  O daughter Babylon, you devastator!
         Happy shall they be who pay you back
         what you have done to us!
 9  Happy shall they be who take your little ones
         and dash them against the rock!


How does the Church interpret the violence of this psalm (which we sang just this week in liturgy, and I know will turn up at least one more time)? I have heard that the "little ones" in the last lines are the offspring of our sin...any thoughts/links on this? Thanx :)
hmmmm...

Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

  • Administrator Emeritus, Retired Deacon, Inactive Poster, Active Orthodox Christian, Father, and Husband
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,837
  • 我美丽的妻子和我。
    • Orthodox Ecclesiology and The World
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Denver
Re: Psalm 136 (or 137)
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2005, 10:30:48 PM »
There was an article on the Psalms in Diakonia, a scholarly journal of Uniate Ecumenism that you may be interested in reading as it expounds on this Psalm somewhat:

http://academic.uofs.edu/organization/ecsc/DIAKONIA.HTML
在基督
尼古拉
前执事
的博客

Offline MsGuided

  • Pharmakolytria
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 478
  • St. Anastasia
Re: Psalm 136 (or 137)
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2005, 11:07:20 PM »
The way the wordings of the psalms are so extravagant, I would not be surprised if it is interpreted literally.  That doesn't mean that it should be put into use that way of course, to legitamise violence like it mentioned in that article Dn. Nikolai linked.  I'm also seeing that here it is being explained as, "The Fathers tell us that the children of the daughter of Babylon are the evil thoughts that assail us."  Don't know which Father's the Hegumen is referring to, though.
"Forgive me that great love leads me to talking nonsense." Barsanuphius

Offline icxn

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 251
Re: Psalm 136 (or 137)
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2005, 09:13:57 AM »
1. Lament over the Destruction of Jerusalem that is over our soul on account of its fall into sin and losing its peaceful state. Jerusalem means vision of peace. Rivers of Babylon are the passionate thoughts, because they are the cause of confusion (=Babylon). So remembering our former dispassionate state of soul (Zion), what else can we do but weep.

(skipping the other verses for lack of time - I’m sure you can figure it out)

7. Edomites are the fleshly thoughts that entice the soul to purse sinful pleasures and which are the cause of its destruction. Daughter of Babylon is the soul, which has been defeated in her thoughts by sin, whereas her little ones are the first actions of sin. However, you Donna Rose being a wise lady, you will not let them grow and become men (serious sins), but you will crush them with the prayer of Jesus, which is the Rock.

icxn :)

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • Ο προκαθήμενος της Ορθοδοξίας - The President of Orthodoxy
  • Moderator
  • Protospatharios
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,214
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: East
Re: Psalm 136 (or 137)
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2005, 02:27:04 PM »
Dn. Nik,

I trust you are quite familiar with the rules here, and ask you to refrain in the future from using the term Uniate.  You can do better than that.  :P 
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

  • Administrator Emeritus, Retired Deacon, Inactive Poster, Active Orthodox Christian, Father, and Husband
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,837
  • 我美丽的妻子和我。
    • Orthodox Ecclesiology and The World
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Denver
Re: Psalm 136 (or 137)
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2005, 02:32:45 PM »
I apologize Philip, I did know that terms like Papist, Monophysite and Nestorian were frowned on here but was not aware that Uniate was among the banned words. Please forgive my ignorance and any offense I may have caused.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 02:33:33 PM by Диакон Николай »
在基督
尼古拉
前执事
的博客

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • Ο προκαθήμενος της Ορθοδοξίας - The President of Orthodoxy
  • Moderator
  • Protospatharios
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,214
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: East
Re: Psalm 136 (or 137)
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2005, 08:59:14 PM »
No problem, Dn. Nik.  Forgive me for presuming you knew (and for getting back to this so late). 
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).