Author Topic: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?  (Read 1237 times)

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Offline Faith2545

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Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« on: October 28, 2013, 06:58:36 PM »
I have to ask this because I can't really get a clear answer...

For example, I was at a coffee shop and some guy, young under 30 or there about, walks in, dressed in black, with a shirt that had the Virgin Mary standing in a holy pose, with a skeleton face. He had a crucifix upside down, and a tattoo of the pentagram star "pentalpha' on his wrist.

My question is, why is Christianity and Christ mocked in such a hateful manner? What in the world compelled someone to have the Virgin Mary as a skeleton? Who would buy this? Rather, WHY would anti-Christians (non-believers) buy something or wear something like this? WHY??

Or see our symbol depicted in various sacrilegious ways in  things like scary movies or music (heavy metal, anyone?) Again, why?

The way our Cross, the sign of salvation, is turned upside down and used as a symbol of evil? Why? Why do they (non-believers) go so far as to completely destroy our holy Cross, our God, His holy Mother, the church...I don't get it? I don't see the star of david used in these ways? Or of any other religious symbol. Why just Christianity? It is constantly being depicted as evil. For instance, the dreaded day, Halloween. Why do we see our holy symbols represented in such darkness? Another example, I had recently taken my car for repair, and I have a 3/4 inch size wooden crucifix hanging from my mirror. Upon getting my car, I noticed that whoever was working on it positioned the crucifix behind the car freshener, that too hanging from the mirror, in such a way as to completely hide my crucifix. Again, why!! Is it like kryptonite to these people?? What is their problem!!
   
My only explanation is that the only true, real, concrete, form is that of Christianity, and because it is so real it is out to be destroyed. Care to share your opinion on this and enlighten me?

Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2013, 07:17:16 PM »
Sadly some folks get a kick out of provoking others, and others think such apparel is 'cool'. Personally, I find it pathetic and empty. But it is not these folks that sadden me most but the ignorant person I overheard in a shop in our Jewelry Quarter asking about crosses. She didn't like any she was shown and asked, "Haven't you got any with the little man on?"

That level of ignorance concerns me. That and the level of ignorance of Scripture so prevalent among too many young people today.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2013, 07:34:15 PM »
What in the world compelled someone to have the Virgin Mary as a skeleton?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Muerte
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Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2013, 07:45:19 PM »
What in the world compelled someone to have the Virgin Mary as a skeleton?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Muerte

Considering the rest of this guy's gear, it's doubtful he was venerating a Santa Muerte, but that article was interesting.

This sort of thing is growing in popularity--people who don't just claim to be atheist (although I'd say this guy was probably satanic or some similar 'religion')--but who go out of their way to be irreverent and stomp all over other people's beliefs.  Not your typical eye-rollers.  

You have racial intimidation and you have intimidation of people who are not heterosexual (the categories of non-heterosexuals are so numerous now, I won't even trying listing them all) and those two things are monitored and policed.  Religious intimidation is not watched at all, and is even supported by large segments of society.  

What seem to be the two biggest, fastest-growing groups right now are atheists, and these 'spiritual' people who argue against organized religion of any kind, saying you should stop going to church.  I swear, most days it feels like I fell asleep and woke up on the moon.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 07:45:58 PM by newtoorthodoxy »
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2013, 09:27:22 PM »
Saul went even farther, he killed people like us for even mentioning the little man on the cross. But like St. Paul these are possible saints, who after having a vision or other life changing event such as Saul before becoming St.Paul.

 We must guard against creating hate in our hearts, for that is what Satan wants to happen as a result of this. Saul is a perfect example of why we are to love our enemies. And treat them better that they might otherwise expect or deserve. This is done for our own soul, but there is also hope for them until the end, because God never turns his back on the lost sheep.
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Offline IoanC

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 02:08:18 AM »
It is typical of antichrists to bother themselves to deny a God they don't believe exists. It's stupid. If He doesn't exist then just leave it alone. Or why not wear t-shirts with Zeus being hanged or something? But it proves that something deeper troubles them inside, that Christ's message "hits exactly where it hurts".
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 02:09:32 AM by IoanC »

Offline hecma925

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 08:19:00 AM »
Matthew 5:11,12
Quote
Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. .Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you

1 Corinthians 4:11-13
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To the present hour we hunger and thirst, we are ill-clad and buffeted and homeless, and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; when slandered, we try to conciliate; we have become, and are now, as the refuse of the world, the offscouring of all things.

There will always be those who mock Truth either as a fashion statement or to make money (think of the designers that make the clothes and jewelry; or the pop artists, actors, and comedians).  Some will mock because they hate God.  These are the people we have to remember in our prayers and, more importantly, to love.  That guy, even after desecrating his body and clothing it with disdain, was still made in the image of God.  He, too, has a mother who birthed him and was once a child.
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Offline Arachne

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 08:28:35 AM »
Short answer: 'Lookitme, I'm so hardcore!'

(The pentagram is not a Satanic symbol, however.)
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 08:48:22 AM »
The Cross was not always a symbol of salvation until Christ filled it.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2013, 08:48:36 AM »
Matthew 5:11,12
Quote
Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. .Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you

1 Corinthians 4:11-13
Quote
To the present hour we hunger and thirst, we are ill-clad and buffeted and homeless, and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; when slandered, we try to conciliate; we have become, and are now, as the refuse of the world, the offscouring of all things.

There will always be those who mock Truth either as a fashion statement or to make money (think of the designers that make the clothes and jewelry; or the pop artists, actors, and comedians).  Some will mock because they hate God.  These are the people we have to remember in our prayers and, more importantly, to love.  That guy, even after desecrating his body and clothing it with disdain, was still made in the image of God.  He, too, has a mother who birthed him and was once a child.

To love them, yes. To remember them in your prayers, yes. To like their choices, no. But to be too hung up allows us to overlook our sins.

Offline LBK

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2013, 08:50:07 AM »
Short answer: 'Lookitme, I'm so hardcore!'

THIS!!
Yet again, a pearl of wisdom from our spidery sage.  :laugh:
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2013, 08:59:21 AM »
To love them, yes. To remember them in your prayers, yes. To like their choices, no. But to be too hung up allows us to overlook our sins.
This is important.  It's easy to point out to others what is wrong when we ourselves are clothing our hearts with sacrilege all too often.  And I am guilty of it.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2013, 09:13:28 AM »
To love them, yes. To remember them in your prayers, yes. To like their choices, no. But to be too hung up allows us to overlook our sins.
This is important.  It's easy to point out to others what is wrong when we ourselves are clothing our hearts with sacrilege all too often.  And I am guilty of it.

Some commit sacrilege in honest ignorance. Some do not, such as many who have disgraced the pages of the "Schlock Icons" thread.
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Offline Robert scho

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2013, 09:59:13 AM »
Hi everyone and god bless you all;

It is typical of antichrists to bother themselves to deny a God they don't believe exists. It's stupid. If He doesn't exist then just leave it alone. Or why not wear t-shirts with Zeus being hanged or something? But it proves that something deeper troubles them inside, that Christ's message "hits exactly where it hurts".
+7

Love this one by IoanC! totally agreed.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 10:02:12 AM by Robert scho »
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Offline Robert scho

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2013, 10:12:10 AM »
It should probably also be noted on this issue that a person may be under the influence of the antichrist and might not mean their is no hope of salvation for them, just to remind, that our lord said to st.Peter (get thee behind me satan,thou savourest not the things that be of god) did'nt mean that st.Peter was the horny one himself but rather that his train of thought was way too worldly grounded as some of those present at the time wrongfully expected worldly conquests of our savior.
It was Satan in the desert for 40 days that tried to tempt our savior with what? Things of the world.

Things that are seen are temporal while things that are not are eternal.
For a Christian ending to our life, painless, blameless, peaceful; and a good defense before the dread judgement seat of Christ, let us ask of the Lord.
And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

Offline jah777

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2013, 10:55:28 AM »
To understand this, I highly recommend the book by Fr. Seraphim (Rose) entitled "Nihilism" as well as the book "Youth of the Apocalypse" by John Marler:

http://youthoftheapocalypse.com/

There is also the "Death to the World" outreach effort to such youth:

http://deathtotheworld.com/

Many youth of today feel a sense of hopelessness and despair because they long for God and for salvation and see only to choices before them, 1) A life full of worldly concerns and the endless pursuit of material and transitory things that inevitably decay and die, and 2) An endless chaotic mess of false religions filled with hypocritical and judgmental people who fail to exemplify the fruits of purification, illumination, and deification.

The monks at St. Herman's Monastery in Platina, through their "Death to the World" outreach efforts (now led by Orthodox laity), saw in many of these lost youths an jadedness with worldly life and false religion that left many of them still very hungry for true faith and the authentic way of salvation.  When youth take upon themselves these extreme appearances, they are making themselves into a living protest against conventionality, against the "patterns of this present world", as well as against religions which appear to be also conforming to the patterns of this world.  They may also be ripe to adopt and accept an authentic, ascetical, Orthodox Christian lifestyle which also does not conform to the patterns of this world.  Often such youth, if they are exposed to it, soak up the lives of the ascetical saints like water in the desert.  While this is the case, however, the fact is that many such youth will not turn to Orthodoxy.  Why?  It is because we can only offer books about saints while we ourselves fail to imitate that which we hold up as worthy of imitation.  We tell others to imitate the saints while we ourselves follow the patterns of this present world, and so we become another reason for such youth to turn their backs on Christ and Christianity.  Then also, St. Paul says to us, "the name of God is blasphemed among the [unbelievers] because of you (Romans 2:24)."

When the youth adopt extreme physical displays in this manner, they know that they will be judged and condemned by others.  They long to be loved, yet since they do not experience genuine and authentic love, they settle for negative attention to validate their existence which is more affirming than no attention at all.  They, in fact, long to meet an authentic Orthodox Christian who can see them as persons beyond their external displays and attempts to be provocative.  They long to meet someone who truly loves and who sees beyond superficial externals; both the superficial externals of a life of conformism pursuing the vain things of this world, and the superficial externals of taking on provocative and foolish appearances in protest against conformism.

So, when we see such people we should pray for them because they are very sick and, for whatever reasons, find themselves totally opposed to the faith and lifestyles that have been presented to them.  We should pray that they might one day find the true way of salvation and that we might be able to reach out to such people in love. 
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 11:24:35 AM by jah777 »

Offline JamesR

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2013, 03:41:22 PM »
Two things come to mind. Firstly, and this is going to sound very hyperdox, but I think that Western Christianity--particularly in America--has given people a very negative outlook toward Christianity in general, similar to Muslim terrorists giving all Muslims a bad name. Second thing, I often wear a reversed Cross along with my normal baptismal Cross because it reminds me of St. Peter's martyrdom and I tend to see it as symbolizing the own Cross in life that I personally have to bear. People often thing I'm Satanic or ignorant until we talk religion.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2013, 04:20:42 PM »
Second thing, I often wear a reversed Cross along with my normal baptismal Cross because it reminds me of St. Peter's martyrdom and I tend to see it as symbolizing the own Cross in life that I personally have to bear. People often thing I'm Satanic or ignorant until we talk religion.

So how do you wear your crosses?

Under the shirt? Over the shirt? Both?
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2013, 05:59:18 PM »
Second thing, I often wear a reversed Cross along with my normal baptismal Cross because it reminds me of St. Peter's martyrdom and I tend to see it as symbolizing the own Cross in life that I personally have to bear. People often thing I'm Satanic or ignorant until we talk religion.

So how do you wear your crosses?

Under the shirt? Over the shirt? Both?

Usually under, although, when I bend down they often dangle out, and then the topic comes up.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline RehamG

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2013, 10:13:15 PM »
As a former goth kid for a few years, I didn't even notice the deeper meanings behind what I wore as long as it got a rise from people. Growing up in the conservative South, stuff like that guy wore did the trick since I was eyeball deep in holy rolling Protestants. Shock and awe.

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Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2013, 12:23:10 AM »
Two things come to mind. Firstly, and this is going to sound very hyperdox, but I think that Western Christianity--particularly in America--has given people a very negative outlook toward Christianity in general, similar to Muslim terrorists giving all Muslims a bad name.

I don't think the statement is inherently "hyperdox," provided we also point to Eastern Christianity's failure to bring people into the Faith.

In extreme metal circles, particularly those in Scandinavian countries, Christianity is seen as the great usurper of "natural" pagan cultures. They see it as stealing the culture of their ancestors at the cost of much blood and suffering. People who listen to this music and buy into its own culture will probably latch onto this view. It's appealing.

Offline Faith2545

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2013, 12:36:28 PM »
Second thing, I often wear a reversed Cross along with my normal baptismal Cross because it reminds me of St. Peter's martyrdom and I tend to see it as symbolizing the own Cross in life that I personally have to bear. People often thing I'm Satanic or ignorant until we talk religion.

So how do you wear your crosses?

Under the shirt? Over the shirt? Both?

Usually under, although, when I bend down they often dangle out, and then the topic comes up.

Please don't wear your cross upside-down! It's not proper! I understand your reason behind St. Peter's martyrdom, but it's forbidden! Even ask a priest, they'll tell you.

Offline Nephi

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2013, 12:57:07 PM »
Short answer: 'Lookitme, I'm so hardcore!'

(The pentagram is not a Satanic symbol, however.)

+1

And it doesn't stop so-called Satanists (i.e. try-hards) from using it, the pentacle, 666, updside-down cross, and everything else that appears non-Christian as "Satanic."

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2013, 08:44:31 PM »
The Cross was not always a symbol of salvation until Christ filled it.

The cross was also a source of great anguish to most people till centuries after the Romans ceased using it, since many knew someone who had been wrongly crucified, it was also a pagan symbol long before crucifixion was ever used by the romans. It was not used as what we know today until Christians began making it the symbol of our faith around the second century, I believe.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 08:55:23 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2013, 09:02:21 PM »
Short answer: 'Lookitme, I'm so hardcore!'

(The pentagram is not a Satanic symbol, however.)

+1

And it doesn't stop so-called Satanists (i.e. try-hards) from using it, the pentacle, 666, updside-down cross, and everything else that appears non-Christian as "Satanic."

Years ago, I bumped into one of those Satanic-type fellers on YouTube. Probably because of some comment he made from a music video. His own page had all sorts of upside-down crosses. I left him a comment that it reminded me of St. Peter, who didn't want the honor of dying the same way as Christ. The guy wrote me back an obscenity. I couldn't stop laughing. :)

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2013, 09:07:41 PM »
Why was the obscenity so funny?
I think that the anti-Christ people are trying to deride us so that we will abandon our faith, so that when the real anti-Christ comes, it would be easier to make a choice between being laughed at and following the anti-christ.

Offline biro

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2013, 09:10:02 PM »
Why was the obscenity so funny?
I think that the anti-Christ people are trying to deride us so that we will abandon our faith, so that when the real anti-Christ comes, it would be easier to make a choice between being laughed at and following the anti-christ.

His response to me made him sound like a cranky child. He thought he was so tough, but he just made me giggle.

Offline LBK

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2013, 09:12:08 PM »
Why was the obscenity so funny?
I think that the anti-Christ people are trying to deride us so that we will abandon our faith, so that when the real anti-Christ comes, it would be easier to make a choice between being laughed at and following the anti-christ.

I took Biro's mirth as laughing at the irony of the satanists' use of the cross of St Peter.
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Offline biro

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2013, 09:13:04 PM »
Why was the obscenity so funny?
I think that the anti-Christ people are trying to deride us so that we will abandon our faith, so that when the real anti-Christ comes, it would be easier to make a choice between being laughed at and following the anti-christ.

I took Biro's mirth as laughing at the irony of the satanists' use of the cross of St Peter.

Yep. :)

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Re: Those sooo anti-Christ....why such mannerisms?
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2013, 08:08:40 PM »
Why was the obscenity so funny?
I think that the anti-Christ people are trying to deride us so that we will abandon our faith, so that when the real anti-Christ comes, it would be easier to make a choice between being laughed at and following the anti-christ.

I took Biro's mirth as laughing at the irony of the satanists' use of the cross of St Peter.

Yep. :)

He was probably upset that you called him out on a historical fact.
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