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Author Topic: The Devil and the End Times  (Read 909 times) Average Rating: 0
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lovetzatziki
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« on: September 08, 2013, 01:06:33 PM »

Who is bringing the end times, God or the Devil? What interest would the Devil have to bring the end times knowing that that is also equivalent with his end? What is the interest of the Devil: To bring the end times or to stop them ? What is he thinking?
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2013, 01:22:19 PM »

Stop worrying about "end times." Work on your own theosis and your journey to salvation. Leave the rest to God.

"It is amazing how many in direct violation of what God has put forth still attempt to figure out the day and hour of His return based on all sorts of calculations and such. How many have there been through history? More than we know, yet we know of plenty. Yet, it was exactly this fixation upon this that Christ wanted to avoid. This is what the parable of the thief in the night is pointing us towards.

Jesus tells us straight forward that He is coming as a thief in the night. This is not going to be announced or ads appear in the paper announcing His return. Rather, it will be sudden and unexpected, when we think we are secure and safe. So, why doesn’t Jesus want to tell us the day and hour? The first answer the Fathers give is because if we knew the day and hour, we would not be watchful but lazy. If we know the day and hour, then we will be watchful during that time and that time alone, but ignore Christ otherwise. No, Christ wants us to be watchful all the time, and the only way that can happen is if we do not know the day or hour."   http://www.orthodoxconvert.info/Q-A.php?c=End%20Times-No%20Man%20Knows%20the%20Hour
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2013, 02:29:07 AM »

Stop worrying about "end times." Work on your own theosis and your journey to salvation. Leave the rest to God.

"It is amazing how many in direct violation of what God has put forth still attempt to figure out the day and hour of His return based on all sorts of calculations and such. How many have there been through history? More than we know, yet we know of plenty. Yet, it was exactly this fixation upon this that Christ wanted to avoid. This is what the parable of the thief in the night is pointing us towards.

Jesus tells us straight forward that He is coming as a thief in the night. This is not going to be announced or ads appear in the paper announcing His return. Rather, it will be sudden and unexpected, when we think we are secure and safe. So, why doesn’t Jesus want to tell us the day and hour? The first answer the Fathers give is because if we knew the day and hour, we would not be watchful but lazy. If we know the day and hour, then we will be watchful during that time and that time alone, but ignore Christ otherwise. No, Christ wants us to be watchful all the time, and the only way that can happen is if we do not know the day or hour."   http://www.orthodoxconvert.info/Q-A.php?c=End%20Times-No%20Man%20Knows%20the%20Hour

This is not the subject of the topic. Hmm.. Strike 2.. 2nd rude answer.

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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2013, 07:43:02 AM »

Stop worrying about "end times." Work on your own theosis and your journey to salvation. Leave the rest to God.

"It is amazing how many in direct violation of what God has put forth still attempt to figure out the day and hour of His return based on all sorts of calculations and such. How many have there been through history? More than we know, yet we know of plenty. Yet, it was exactly this fixation upon this that Christ wanted to avoid. This is what the parable of the thief in the night is pointing us towards.

Jesus tells us straight forward that He is coming as a thief in the night. This is not going to be announced or ads appear in the paper announcing His return. Rather, it will be sudden and unexpected, when we think we are secure and safe. So, why doesn’t Jesus want to tell us the day and hour? The first answer the Fathers give is because if we knew the day and hour, we would not be watchful but lazy. If we know the day and hour, then we will be watchful during that time and that time alone, but ignore Christ otherwise. No, Christ wants us to be watchful all the time, and the only way that can happen is if we do not know the day or hour."   http://www.orthodoxconvert.info/Q-A.php?c=End%20Times-No%20Man%20Knows%20the%20Hour

This is not the subject of the topic. Hmm.. Strike 2.. 2nd rude answer.



? You raised end times in your OP. Please, see your priest and work on  your issues in person.
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2013, 08:05:14 AM »

Gee I have an idea. Let shut the forum down and just put a sign with 'See your priest'  and 'Ask the answer' on it.
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2013, 08:25:14 AM »

Gee I have an idea. Let shut the forum down and just put a sign with 'See your priest'  and 'Ask the answer' on it.

You ask questions, you get answers. You don't like the answers? Go ask your priest. If you don't want to talk to your priest ....
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2013, 10:06:43 AM »

Gee I have an idea. Let shut the forum down and just put a sign with 'See your priest'  and 'Ask the answer' on it.

You ask questions, you get non-answers. You don't like the nonanswers? Go ask your priest. If you don't want to talk to your priest ....

There I fixed it for you. My priest is 1500 km away. I am in a foreign country.
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2013, 10:32:53 AM »

To answer your question: We are in the last times.  They arrived when Christ came to earth.  The devil has no control over them.

Heb 1:1-2: Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2013, 10:37:09 AM »

To answer your question: We are in the last times.  They arrived when Christ came to earth.  The devil has no control over them.

Heb 1:1-2: Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

But does the Devil desire for the last times to come or not?
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2013, 10:40:02 AM »

To answer your question: We are in the last times.  They arrived when Christ came to earth.  The devil has no control over them.

Heb 1:1-2: Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

But does the Devil desire for the last times to come or not?

Since they are already here, I would say no, he did not want them to come because it meant that Christ came to earth.  If you are referring to the end of the world. I would say no he does not want that either because it means the final judgement.
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2013, 11:02:50 AM »

To answer your question: We are in the last times.  They arrived when Christ came to earth.  The devil has no control over them.

Heb 1:1-2: Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

But does the Devil desire for the last times to come or not?

Since they are already here, I would say no, he did not want them to come because it meant that Christ came to earth.  If you are referring to the end of the world. I would say no he does not want that either because it means the final judgement.

Than what will trigger the end? Isn't it all the evil , apostasy , etc? Isn't that like the Devil working against himself? Why would he do that? What is he thinking?
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2013, 11:08:12 AM »

To answer your question: We are in the last times.  They arrived when Christ came to earth.  The devil has no control over them.

Heb 1:1-2: Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

But does the Devil desire for the last times to come or not?

Since they are already here, I would say no, he did not want them to come because it meant that Christ came to earth.  If you are referring to the end of the world. I would say no he does not want that either because it means the final judgement.

Than what will trigger the end? Isn't it all the evil , apostasy , etc? Isn't that like the Devil working against himself? Why would he do that? What is he thinking?
Christ's return will trigger the end.  The devil doesn't have anything to do with it.  You do realize that the Orthodox Church does not believe in the rapture and all that nonsense, right?
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2013, 11:10:21 AM »

To answer your question: We are in the last times.  They arrived when Christ came to earth.  The devil has no control over them.

Heb 1:1-2: Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

But does the Devil desire for the last times to come or not?

Since they are already here, I would say no, he did not want them to come because it meant that Christ came to earth.  If you are referring to the end of the world. I would say no he does not want that either because it means the final judgement.

Than what will trigger the end? Isn't it all the evil , apostasy , etc? Isn't that like the Devil working against himself? Why would he do that? What is he thinking?
Christ's return will trigger the end.  The devil doesn't have anything to do with it.  You do realize that the Orthodox Church does not believe in the rapture and all that nonsense, right?

But what keeps Christ from returning? Isn't it the apostasy, all the evil in the world, etc.. And who is causing that? Who is causing the end times to come and why?
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« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2013, 11:16:50 AM »

What kept Christ from coming the first time?  We don't know.  God works on His own time table.  Christ will return when He should and not a minute before and not a minute later.  Sin isn't preventing Christ from coming as it has no control over Him.  Perhaps I could answer better if you clarified what you mean by "end times".  What does that term mean to you?
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« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2013, 11:23:19 AM »

The Devil and God are collaborating on this project.

Rebellious creatures are stupid and can work toward their own end under the delusion that things will ultimately work out well for them. Most of us live this way, hastening over the precipice into the abyss.
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« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2013, 11:25:14 AM »

What kept Christ from coming the first time?  We don't know.  God works on His own time table.  Christ will return when He should and not a minute before and not a minute later.  Sin isn't preventing Christ from coming as it has no control over Him.  Perhaps I could answer better if you clarified what you mean by "end times".  What does that term mean to you?

Yes! Let's keep them waiting a few thousands years in hell, maybe than they will appreciate more what I do for them.
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« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2013, 11:28:45 AM »

What kept Christ from coming the first time?  We don't know.  God works on His own time table.  Christ will return when He should and not a minute before and not a minute later.  Sin isn't preventing Christ from coming as it has no control over Him.  Perhaps I could answer better if you clarified what you mean by "end times".  What does that term mean to you?

Yes! Let's keep them waiting a few thousands years in hell, maybe than they will appreciate more what I do for them.

Again...
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« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2013, 02:26:57 PM »

What kept Christ from coming the first time?  We don't know.  God works on His own time table.  Christ will return when He should and not a minute before and not a minute later.  Sin isn't preventing Christ from coming as it has no control over Him.  Perhaps I could answer better if you clarified what you mean by "end times".  What does that term mean to you?

Especially since God is out of "time," because He has no beginning and no end.  But Christ also said He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.  So for us to worry about when the end times are going to happen seems silly.  i used to worry so much about the "end times" praying to God that I wouldn't get left behind when the rapture happens.  I had so much anxiety over lies.  That's where the evil one wants to get those who believe that Christ is the Son of God: to lose faith in Him by a lot of nonsense.  Even in hell, there is no "time."  That's the nature of eternity; we can't comprehend it.
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« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2013, 10:50:33 PM »

What kept Christ from coming the first time?  We don't know.  God works on His own time table.  Christ will return when He should and not a minute before and not a minute later.  Sin isn't preventing Christ from coming as it has no control over Him.  Perhaps I could answer better if you clarified what you mean by "end times".  What does that term mean to you?

Yes! Let's keep them waiting a few thousands years in hell, maybe than they will appreciate more what I do for them.

If you think that you're living in "hell on earth", you have deeper problems that can't be addressed by a religious forum.   Sad
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« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2013, 10:58:14 PM »

To answer your question: We are in the last times.  They arrived when Christ came to earth.  The devil has no control over them.

Heb 1:1-2: Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

But does the Devil desire for the last times to come or not?


He knows what will happen. He'll have some fun, but it'll be the last hurrah of evil before the end.
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« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2013, 11:01:33 PM »

To answer your question: We are in the last times.  They arrived when Christ came to earth.  The devil has no control over them.

Heb 1:1-2: Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

But does the Devil desire for the last times to come or not?

Since they are already here, I would say no, he did not want them to come because it meant that Christ came to earth.  If you are referring to the end of the world. I would say no he does not want that either because it means the final judgement.

Than what will trigger the end? Isn't it all the evil , apostasy , etc? Isn't that like the Devil working against himself? Why would he do that? What is he thinking?

There is no "trigger." The "end times" began with the Incarnation of Christ, who arrived in "the fullness of time," as it pleased the Father. And Christ will return also at the appointed time. The Lord's return can neither be hastened nor delayed by the actions of creatures, it seems to me.

The Devil's desire is to ruin souls. That is what he is working toward.
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« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2013, 11:02:52 PM »

To answer your question: We are in the last times.  They arrived when Christ came to earth.  The devil has no control over them.

Heb 1:1-2: Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

But does the Devil desire for the last times to come or not?

Since they are already here, I would say no, he did not want them to come because it meant that Christ came to earth.  If you are referring to the end of the world. I would say no he does not want that either because it means the final judgement.

Than what will trigger the end? Isn't it all the evil , apostasy , etc? Isn't that like the Devil working against himself? Why would he do that? What is he thinking?
Christ's return will trigger the end.  The devil doesn't have anything to do with it.  You do realize that the Orthodox Church does not believe in the rapture and all that nonsense, right?

But what keeps Christ from returning? Isn't it the apostasy, all the evil in the world, etc.. And who is causing that? Who is causing the end times to come and why?

Nothing is keeping Christ from returning. He will come at the time the Father appoints. All the evil in the world is like a gnat to God.
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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2013, 12:58:01 AM »

Nothing is keeping Christ from returning. He will come at the time the Father appoints. All the evil in the world is like a gnat to God.

He's already on his way:

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Καὶ πάλιν ἐρχόμενον μετὰ δόξης κρῖναι ζῶντας καὶ νεκρούς...

And he is coming again with glory to judge the living and the dead...
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2013, 07:16:18 AM »

What kept Christ from coming the first time?  We don't know.  God works on His own time table.  Christ will return when He should and not a minute before and not a minute later.  Sin isn't preventing Christ from coming as it has no control over Him.  Perhaps I could answer better if you clarified what you mean by "end times".  What does that term mean to you?

Yes! Let's keep them waiting a few thousands years in hell, maybe than they will appreciate more what I do for them.

If you think that you're living in "hell on earth", you have deeper problems that can't be addressed by a religious forum.   Sad

That was refering to the before christ times.
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2013, 07:34:48 AM »

What kept Christ from coming the first time?  We don't know.  God works on His own time table.  Christ will return when He should and not a minute before and not a minute later.  Sin isn't preventing Christ from coming as it has no control over Him.  Perhaps I could answer better if you clarified what you mean by "end times".  What does that term mean to you?

Especially since God is out of "time," because He has no beginning and no end.  But Christ also said He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.  So for us to worry about when the end times are going to happen seems silly.  i used to worry so much about the "end times" praying to God that I wouldn't get left behind when the rapture happens.  I had so much anxiety over lies.  That's where the evil one wants to get those who believe that Christ is the Son of God: to lose faith in Him by a lot of nonsense.  Even in hell, there is no "time."  That's the nature of eternity; we can't comprehend it.

This is not about worrying about the end times, but about WHO is bringing the end times and wheather the Devil really exists as an distinct entity or not. Why doesn't God repair the existent situation instead of causing the end, the Armaghedon war, the melting of the elements, etc? Because grace itself is not inherent in us(at least this is what I am getting by reading the fathers and the bible), but it is something that God gives to us, and as I read the council of Orange we need this grace in order to repent, pray, etc.. Even this things are a matter of grace. My question is why doesn't there God give this grace to the whole world so that they will be better people? Or can we heal our own souls without the grace of God? When I feel left by God and in a unfavourable position with him, I feel there is nothing that can comfort me. What I am saying.. contrasts exist in the world.. darkness and light.. good and evil... So what is wrong with a dualistic God? Does anything that exist exists without God? Can anything exist without God? Isn't a dualistic God consistent with the Bible?
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« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2013, 07:44:12 AM »

The end of the world is about restoration, not about destruction. Don't let protestant pop eschatology tell you differently.
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« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2013, 07:01:15 AM »

Gee I have an idea. Let shut the forum down and just put a sign with 'See your priest'  and 'Ask the answer' on it.

You ask questions, you get non-answers. You don't like the nonanswers? Go ask your priest. If you don't want to talk to your priest ....

There I fixed it for you. My priest is 1500 km away. I am in a foreign country.

A country like Greenland or Nepal where there is no church nearby, right?
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« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2013, 07:03:51 AM »

Gee I have an idea. Let shut the forum down and just put a sign with 'See your priest'  and 'Ask the answer' on it.

You ask questions, you get non-answers. You don't like the nonanswers? Go ask your priest. If you don't want to talk to your priest ....

There I fixed it for you. My priest is 1500 km away. I am in a foreign country.

A country like Greenland or Nepal where there is no church nearby, right?

... priests can be contacted by phone or email these days.
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« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2013, 07:24:49 AM »

Gee I have an idea. Let shut the forum down and just put a sign with 'See your priest'  and 'Ask the answer' on it.

You ask questions, you get non-answers. You don't like the nonanswers? Go ask your priest. If you don't want to talk to your priest ....

There I fixed it for you. My priest is 1500 km away. I am in a foreign country.

A country like Greenland or Nepal where there is no church nearby, right?

... priests can be contacted by phone or email these days.

I think I wrote somewhere that it has been 3 years since I last confessed. And before that I confessed to different priests. I have no phone of any priest and I am not so sure they like this kind of conversations. Someone recommended me to a priest who did. He didn't answer any of my questions(he was supposed to be good) but always tried to derive from the question and create red herrings just like some of you from the forum Smiley. That is and always will be a turn-off and a no-no sir, esppecially regarding priests. In an Orthodox country a priest doesn't have too much time to do apologetics, because of the parishes. And in my country no priest is actually bothered with this esspecially if the family is Orthodox or so. There are just too many Orthodox to handle, I guess. Many people(cradle-Orthodox) practictants or non-practicants know there is no such big deal with priests.
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« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2013, 07:27:40 AM »

Gee I have an idea. Let shut the forum down and just put a sign with 'See your priest'  and 'Ask the answer' on it.

You ask questions, you get non-answers. You don't like the nonanswers? Go ask your priest. If you don't want to talk to your priest ....

There I fixed it for you. My priest is 1500 km away. I am in a foreign country.

A country like Greenland or Nepal where there is no church nearby, right?

Something like that. Probably the most atheistic country in Europe and amongst the wealthiest(strange isn't it).
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« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2013, 07:29:05 AM »

Who is bringing the end times, God or the Devil? What interest would the Devil have to bring the end times knowing that that is also equivalent with his end? What is the interest of the Devil: To bring the end times or to stop them ? What is he thinking?

When the Winepress of God's Wrath has squeezed out the last remaining good drops, then the dregs will be handed over to the Devil, and all will be burned up in the fire.
Let us strive to make sure we are among the good drops!
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« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2013, 07:30:30 AM »

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and I am not so sure they like this kind of conversations.

It's a fundamental part of their "job".
Quote
Someone recommended me to a priest who did. He didn't answer any of my questions(he was supposed to be good) but always tried to derive from the question and create red herrings just like some of you from the forum

Red herrings? People here have directed you to scripture and other established church teachings. If you don't want to accept advice, whether from layman or priest ...
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lovetzatziki
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« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2013, 07:33:05 AM »

Who is bringing the end times, God or the Devil? What interest would the Devil have to bring the end times knowing that that is also equivalent with his end? What is the interest of the Devil: To bring the end times or to stop them ? What is he thinking?

When the Winepress of God's Wrath has squeezed out the last remaining good drops, then the dregs will be handed over to the Devil, and all will be burned up in the fire.
Let us strive to make sure we are among the good drops!

What for? To worship a God that is not so good in eternity who might after the first 100 billion years or the 2nd second destroy all of you in "heaven"? Can't you see that what you are saying is fear-based. This has been the tacticts of Christianity for millenniums. No wonder all Christians are so full of fears and so big sociopaths and introvertits. Looking at the testimony of this forum, this seems actual to this forum also.
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« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2013, 07:36:59 AM »

Gee I have an idea. Let shut the forum down and just put a sign with 'See your priest'  and 'Ask the answer' on it.

You ask questions, you get non-answers. You don't like the nonanswers? Go ask your priest. If you don't want to talk to your priest ....

There I fixed it for you. My priest is 1500 km away. I am in a foreign country.

A country like Greenland or Nepal where there is no church nearby, right?

Something like that. Probably the most atheistic country in Europe and amongst the wealthiest(strange isn't it).

Not really strange. I'm pretty sure there are some churches in Sweded. Do you want me to find them?
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« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2013, 07:38:26 AM »

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and I am not so sure they like this kind of conversations.

It's a fundamental part of their "job".
Quote
Someone recommended me to a priest who did. He didn't answer any of my questions(he was supposed to be good) but always tried to derive from the question and create red herrings just like some of you from the forum

Red herrings? People here have directed you to scripture and other established church teachings. If you don't want to accept advice, whether from layman or priest ...

The bible needs interpretation mate. It's just plain rude to simply send someone to read the Bible. Supposingly all Christians should have read the Bible or at least have awareness of it. This Christian has read the whole Bible 4 times.

Directed to established church teachings? Like what? Examples?

Some people here have been kind enough to actually bother to answer my question. You are not among those.
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« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2013, 07:38:50 AM »

So why keep being a Christian?
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lovetzatziki
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« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2013, 07:43:19 AM »

Gee I have an idea. Let shut the forum down and just put a sign with 'See your priest'  and 'Ask the answer' on it.

You ask questions, you get non-answers. You don't like the nonanswers? Go ask your priest. If you don't want to talk to your priest ....

There I fixed it for you. My priest is 1500 km away. I am in a foreign country.

A country like Greenland or Nepal where there is no church nearby, right?

Something like that. Probably the most atheistic country in Europe and amongst the wealthiest(strange isn't it).

Not really strange. I'm pretty sure there are some churches in Sweded. Do you want me to find them?

My problem is not finding Churches but finding answers. Back home I was surrounded by Churches. I had 2 churches on a ray of 300 m. One just across the street. As I said, I don't believe in priests as apologists. And I don't believe priests are good advisors. Because someone has to go through all the experience a person has gone and out of them succesfully in order to understand that person and give the correct advice. And people have different experiences of life. The life of a priest is different than the life of a layman.
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« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2013, 07:45:52 AM »

So why keep being a Christian?

Because I like Christ sorta. Some of his teachings. But nevertheless good question. I am confused.
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« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2013, 07:49:46 AM »

So why keep being a Christian?

Because I like Christ sorta. Some of his teachings. But nevertheless good question. I am confused.

I am confused too.  If you don't believe priests are good apologists, but come to an online forum not liking the answers you get, what recourse does that leave you?
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« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2013, 07:49:59 AM »

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The bible needs interpretation mate.

Of course it does. And it can be found in many places, including in the hymns and prayers of the Church. If you can't get to a church, there are plenty of online liturgical texts and prayer books available.
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LBK
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« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2013, 07:50:46 AM »

So why keep being a Christian?

Because I like Christ sorta. Some of his teachings. But nevertheless good question. I am confused.

I am confused too.  If you don't believe priests are good apologists, but come to an online forum not liking the answers you get, what recourse does that leave you?

Exactly my point.  Sad
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« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2013, 07:56:01 AM »

It is kinda silly to say priests are not good advisors.  As with anything, there are good priests, lousy priests and the whole range in the middle.  Not every priest got the job straight out of college, many have worked in the secular world and became priests later in life.  

What you say about interpretation is correct.  Fortunately, we have been given the Church that provides interpretation and context.  I agree with you that Christians should be studying Scripture.  It is appalling that many Christians have never even read the full New Testament much less the whole Bible.  Still, that doesn't mean Christianity is wrong, it just means that a certain Christian may be more lax in his/her faith than they should be.

I really don't understand your theory on fear.  While I was a protestant, my faith was very fear based, but as an Orthodox Christian, I see the exact opposite. The faith is based on love.  Many of the things you have written seem to be very influenced by protestant theology.  If I am wrong, forgive me, but a lot of your comments bring back memories of things I was taught years ago.  They are a distortion of Christianity and a main reason why so many people are attracted to atheism.  They see the contradictions and the silliness and assume that is what Christianity is all about.
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« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2013, 08:01:29 AM »

Who is bringing the end times, God or the Devil? What interest would the Devil have to bring the end times knowing that that is also equivalent with his end? What is the interest of the Devil: To bring the end times or to stop them ? What is he thinking?

When the Winepress of God's Wrath has squeezed out the last remaining good drops, then the dregs will be handed over to the Devil, and all will be burned up in the fire.
Let us strive to make sure we are among the good drops!

Sigh.  Sinners in the hand of an angry God much?
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« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2013, 02:21:02 PM »

It is kinda silly to say priests are not good advisors.  As with anything, there are good priests, lousy priests and the whtange in the middle.  Not every priest got the job straight out of college, many have worked in the secular world and became priests later in life.  

What you say about interpretation is correct.  Fortunately, we have been given the Church that provides interpretation and context.  I agree with you that Christians should be studying Scripture.  It is appalling that many Christians have never even read the full New Testament much less the whole Bible.  Still, that doesn't mean Christianity is wrong, it just means that a certain Christian may be more lax in his/her faith than they should be.

I really don't understand your theory on fear.  While I was a protestant, my faith was very fear based, but as an Orthodox Christian, I see the exact opposite. The faith is based on love.  Many of the things you have written seem to be very influenced by protestant theology.  If I am wrong, forgive me, but a lot of your comments bring back memories of things I was taught years ago.  They are a distortion of Christianity and a main reason why so many people are attracted to atheism.  They see the contradictions and the silliness and assume that is what Christianity is all about.

Thanks "Tri", you comment about priests, especially pastors is true. I'll just say that the life experiences of my family over seven decades and three generations with Orthodox clergy in the family were no better, nor any worse than any of those of my friends whose parents might have been doctors, psychologists, teachers, laborers or whatever. Illness, tragedy, addiction, marital issues, childraising issues finances, college funds - you name it - my parents (and the families of their clergy friends) dealt with those in their lives and the lives of their siblings and children just like "real people."

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« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2013, 02:56:10 PM »

Christ does not know the day of Judgment nor does the devil. It also means the causes and means of the end of the world are not known or else Christ would be able to know when it is going to happen from the analysis of these causes.

The devil is not trying to bring about the end, he is just being the envious hateful liar he has always been and trying to bring down as many souls as possible, precisely because he knows that Christ may come back at any time. He knows he is going down and wants as many people as possible to go with him. He knows he is already defeated in the long term, and since the long term may actually be in five seconds, he is doing his "best" to take others with him.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 02:57:16 PM by Fabio Leite » Logged

Many Energies, Three Persons, Two Natures, One God.
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