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walter1234
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« on: July 09, 2013, 07:26:05 AM »

Money is important because we still need it to buy food, drinks to sustain our life.

It is not important because we cannot bring any of it to our eternal life. It cannot buy friendship and draw us closer to Jesus

So, what are your views on money?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 07:41:49 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 07:36:10 AM »

Money is an excellent servant but a lousy master. So we must make sure we keep it in its place.

Like with certain other things, it's not how much you have but how you use it that counts.
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 08:23:36 AM »

There are several angles through wich we can think of money.

Money, in general, is the best way to measure the trade value of things. In that sense, it's a tool. People who blame greed and the abuse of money on money itself make as much sense as those who blame knives for murders, putting aside all the good knives have made possible for humanity.

Money as specific currencies are like units of measurement (meters, miles, etc). A strong stable currency is one that allows dependable evaluation of the economic value of goods. The value of currency in exchange is related to other things as the political and commercial power of the country.

Money as bills of credit - and in the end the bills and coins we use are just credit, and that's why we are steadily moving to virtual credit - represent precisely how much people trust the owner of the bill, literally how much *credit* he has. That's why we live in an age where having charisma is the one single most important talent a person must have to make money, even in technical jobs. Everything put equal, the one with more charisma gets more credit,  more trust, and hence, more money.

It's this "money as trust" that people hate so much about contemporary capitalism. When a woman gets millions to dance in a sexy way singing vulgar lyrics, when the porn industry is the most profitable in the internet, when we overpay sociopaths to be politicians and CEOs, worshipping sheer power, while cultural and religious initiatives have to beg for crumbles, that reveals what our society really loves, really trusts. So, kill the messenger, kill capitalism.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 08:24:58 AM by Fabio Leite » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2013, 08:38:46 AM »

Money is an excellent servant but a lousy master. So we must make sure we keep it in its place.

Like with certain other things, it's not how much you have but how you use it that counts.

+1
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2013, 10:41:00 AM »

Money is an excellent servant but a lousy master. So we must make sure we keep it in its place.

Like with certain other things, it's not how much you have but how you use it that counts.

plus 2
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2013, 11:49:54 AM »

Money is an excellent servant but a lousy master. So we must make sure we keep it in its place.

Like with certain other things, it's not how much you have but how you use it that counts.

Not much else needs to be said beyond this...
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2013, 12:04:26 PM »

We use it to pay bills.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 12:05:10 PM by WPM » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2013, 11:49:42 PM »

Money is important because we still need it to buy food, drinks to sustain our life.

It is not important because we cannot bring any of it to our eternal life. It cannot buy friendship and draw us closer to Jesus

So, what are your views on money?

Haha, I seriously talk about this subject all the time.....   Here's the answer, and it may be strange or controversial to some... But I'll try to be as honest as possible.

First as Christians we were commanded to not be of this world.   We were also told we are set aside from this world.  This means that a worldly way of thinking, worldly mentality, and worldly understanding of worldly things should not apply to us as Christians.

With this said, I'll start by giving you a chunk of my personal life.  My family raises FULLY ORGANIC FREE RANGE farm animals.  This means that we do not give them feed, we allow them to roam pasture lands for their food.   Their water is either from our stream (leading to our pond), or water catchment.   The animals all eat grass, shrubs, bugs, etc., for their food supply.  

I've raised baby goats directly from their mothers, straight to the grass & leaves into adulthood, until they produce their own milk.   The bucks I have slaughtered, raised directly from grass.

We cut the goats forage sometimes (evergreen trimmings - Cedar) during the winter months, which they chomp on.  After they clean the sticks of green, we chip them into wood chips for mulch on our garden.  We do use a power chipper, but it can be done with hatchets as well.

We have skinned goats, tanned hides, and my wife has made moccasins out of the leathers...
We have sheared animals (sheep and angora rabbits), spun yarn, and my wife & daughter knit...
We have made soap out of animal fat, raised off pasture grasses and leaves.  

The soap lye was made from the ashes of the fire that we smoked the goat meat on.

Honestly, I do believe with natural housing (cob, rammed earth, or simply a log cabin), stones for fireplaces, some tools, that god has provided us with EVERYTHING we need to live.

It's our worldly ways with worldly needs that cause us to "need" money.

Taxation is another subject, but in my country, if you don't earn money, you don't pay an income tax.  There are other taxes (within transactions), but let's not complicate the matter further.

There are many people who build homes for free out of natural materials/garbage.  (youtube earthships)


The only "Christian" answer I can give you is that "NO" money is not important.  God has given us everything we need to live, shelter, wash, eat, drink, clothe, and play with.... All for free in his creation.  Unfortunately, most of us (I'm trying I promise) are scared to take the steps necessary to "leave" the world and live within the beauty of his creation.

In our worldly ways, I believe money should be a back burner issue, NOT IMPORTANT.   We should use as little of it as NEEDED, and only buy with a pure contented spirit, as we work our way out of these worldly ways.

Perpetual debt, buying from exploitive corporations (and ones that support planned parenthood), and never living past a 40-50 hour shift to pay for a sofa and television set at night, seems rather enslaving.   Like cattle being led into the stalls at night...  

God has given us so much self sustaining beauty.   Every year I learn more and more about it.  It's terrifying yet amazing to watch it progress.   'Permaculture' was God's design, all self sustaining.    God is good, and gave us everything we need....   Our "failure" to embrace it, creates reliance on a worldly system of money.

Anyway, those are the thoughts I have on the subject.... It's just amazing as we had our 4th generation of chicks just start laying WITHOUT EVER feeding them any chicken feed.  they nibble TEENY sand fragments for grit when they are chicks.  Smiley    The mother hens kill bugs for them too.... They'll peck at little strands of grass, fleas, etc....

God is good.  God gives us hope.



EDIT - Electricity can be created from wind power.  I've built a windmill out of an old treadmill motor, and and old 6" diameter PVC pipe cut into blades for the wind generator.   I stuck a diode on it, and watched it charge a bank of golf cart batteries (wired in series parallel) and ran a 12V inverter off it for 120V A/C power.    ALL built from garbage.   Even the battery bank was desulphated old golf cart batteries (restored), the wiring was off an old welder to hold the amperage between the batts.

Amazingly awesome stuff, all for free, from garbage...

God gives in that which people waste.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 11:53:51 PM by yeshuaisiam » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2013, 11:51:26 PM »

Yes, because without it, what else would I be able to give the poor? It's not like I can carry a hot meal around with me or shelter all the time.
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2013, 11:53:44 PM »

Yes, because without it, what else would I be able to give the poor? It's not like I can carry a hot meal around with me or shelter all the time.
Why not?  This is just a day in the life for me.  Grin
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2013, 11:57:04 PM »

Yes, because without it, what else would I be able to give the poor? It's not like I can carry a hot meal around with me or shelter all the time.
Why not?  This is just a day in the life for me.  Grin


God made things easier for us, if we only REALLY reach out of the box with the mind he gave us.
http://www.simondale.net/hobbit.htm

Neat home somebody built in the above link....  Many people make 'low impact homes' for ridiculous cheap.
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2013, 12:02:31 AM »

Yes, because without it, what else would I be able to give the poor? It's not like I can carry a hot meal around with me or shelter all the time.
Why not?  This is just a day in the life for me.  Grin


God made things easier for us, if we only REALLY reach out of the box with the mind he gave us.
http://www.simondale.net/hobbit.htm

Neat home somebody built in the above link....  Many people make 'low impact homes' for ridiculous cheap.
That is the coolest house ever.  Completely impossible in the US due to draconian building codes, but very cool nonetheless.
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2013, 12:04:27 AM »

Yes, because without it, what else would I be able to give the poor? It's not like I can carry a hot meal around with me or shelter all the time.
Why not?  This is just a day in the life for me.  Grin


God made things easier for us, if we only REALLY reach out of the box with the mind he gave us.
http://www.simondale.net/hobbit.htm

Neat home somebody built in the above link....  Many people make 'low impact homes' for ridiculous cheap.
That is the coolest house ever.  Completely impossible in the US due to draconian building codes, but very cool nonetheless.

In the country, without code, no zoning laws, no restrictions..... Then you just gotta think "it's not illegal unless I get caught".   LOL.

Nobody would mess with you in the boondocks.
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2013, 01:29:51 AM »

It is important if you don't have any, or enough, but too much brings troubles.  We need just enough to survive, possibly a little more. 

Personally, I prefer the old barter system.  If you aren’t productive, you can’t trade.  If you can’t trade, you can’t eat.  If you can’t eat...well, you get the picture.  Everyone works, no welfare.
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2013, 03:45:20 AM »

It is important if you don't have any, or enough, but too much brings troubles.  We need just enough to survive, possibly a little more. 

Personally, I prefer the old barter system.  If you aren’t productive, you can’t trade.  If you can’t trade, you can’t eat.  If you can’t eat...well, you get the picture.  Everyone works, no welfare.


Yep, I agree. My philosophy is that the Church should be self-sufficient. No member of the Body of Christ should need welfare, insurance, or governmental health care. We should take care of one another and follow the model of the first Christians.

"And they sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had a need." [Acts 2:45]


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« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2013, 03:54:44 AM »

I like to have money and buy things.
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« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2013, 07:49:45 AM »

Money is important because we still need it to buy food, drinks to sustain our life.

It is not important because we cannot bring any of it to our eternal life. It cannot buy friendship and draw us closer to Jesus

So, what are your views on money?

Haha, I seriously talk about this subject all the time.....   Here's the answer, and it may be strange or controversial to some... But I'll try to be as honest as possible.

First as Christians we were commanded to not be of this world.   We were also told we are set aside from this world.  This means that a worldly way of thinking, worldly mentality, and worldly understanding of worldly things should not apply to us as Christians.

With this said, I'll start by giving you a chunk of my personal life.  My family raises FULLY ORGANIC FREE RANGE farm animals.  This means that we do not give them feed, we allow them to roam pasture lands for their food.   Their water is either from our stream (leading to our pond), or water catchment.   The animals all eat grass, shrubs, bugs, etc., for their food supply.  

I've raised baby goats directly from their mothers, straight to the grass & leaves into adulthood, until they produce their own milk.   The bucks I have slaughtered, raised directly from grass.

We cut the goats forage sometimes (evergreen trimmings - Cedar) during the winter months, which they chomp on.  After they clean the sticks of green, we chip them into wood chips for mulch on our garden.  We do use a power chipper, but it can be done with hatchets as well.

We have skinned goats, tanned hides, and my wife has made moccasins out of the leathers...
We have sheared animals (sheep and angora rabbits), spun yarn, and my wife & daughter knit...
We have made soap out of animal fat, raised off pasture grasses and leaves.  

The soap lye was made from the ashes of the fire that we smoked the goat meat on.

Honestly, I do believe with natural housing (cob, rammed earth, or simply a log cabin), stones for fireplaces, some tools, that god has provided us with EVERYTHING we need to live.

It's our worldly ways with worldly needs that cause us to "need" money.

Taxation is another subject, but in my country, if you don't earn money, you don't pay an income tax.  There are other taxes (within transactions), but let's not complicate the matter further.

There are many people who build homes for free out of natural materials/garbage.  (youtube earthships)


The only "Christian" answer I can give you is that "NO" money is not important.  God has given us everything we need to live, shelter, wash, eat, drink, clothe, and play with.... All for free in his creation.  Unfortunately, most of us (I'm trying I promise) are scared to take the steps necessary to "leave" the world and live within the beauty of his creation.

In our worldly ways, I believe money should be a back burner issue, NOT IMPORTANT.   We should use as little of it as NEEDED, and only buy with a pure contented spirit, as we work our way out of these worldly ways.

Perpetual debt, buying from exploitive corporations (and ones that support planned parenthood), and never living past a 40-50 hour shift to pay for a sofa and television set at night, seems rather enslaving.   Like cattle being led into the stalls at night...  

God has given us so much self sustaining beauty.   Every year I learn more and more about it.  It's terrifying yet amazing to watch it progress.   'Permaculture' was God's design, all self sustaining.    God is good, and gave us everything we need....   Our "failure" to embrace it, creates reliance on a worldly system of money.

Anyway, those are the thoughts I have on the subject.... It's just amazing as we had our 4th generation of chicks just start laying WITHOUT EVER feeding them any chicken feed.  they nibble TEENY sand fragments for grit when they are chicks.  Smiley    The mother hens kill bugs for them too.... They'll peck at little strands of grass, fleas, etc....

God is good.  God gives us hope.



EDIT - Electricity can be created from wind power.  I've built a windmill out of an old treadmill motor, and and old 6" diameter PVC pipe cut into blades for the wind generator.   I stuck a diode on it, and watched it charge a bank of golf cart batteries (wired in series parallel) and ran a 12V inverter off it for 120V A/C power.    ALL built from garbage.   Even the battery bank was desulphated old golf cart batteries (restored), the wiring was off an old welder to hold the amperage between the batts.

Amazingly awesome stuff, all for free, from garbage...

God gives in that which people waste.

First of all, RESPECT! Honestly.
It truly is wonderful how you have done all of this. Good for you.

I was tremendously interested in "living off of the grid" for many, many years myself. I have many books on homesteading and alternative housing, etc. But alas, I am quite literally tied to the monetary system. I'll explain. Not only do my wife and I have ENORMOUS student loans (kids... avoid these!), but I have had Type 1 diabetes for the last 5 years now. Thanks to the government in my province, I get tons of funding and subsidies to pay for my medical needs. If I had to pay out of the pocket, I'd be screwed. It costs me about $3-400 a month just for test strips to check my glucose levels, $250 for pump supplies, and lots more for insulin. Anyway, it adds up! Of course, having student loans and the high costs of just every day life, I am forced to work as much as I can in my profession to pay my way and raise my family, not mention keep myself alive.

Anyway, I do not mean to make this a sob story or take away from what you are doing. I admire you for what you've done and would encourage anyone to move towards simplicity as you have, and stay out of the money race as much as possible. I just wanted to share a different perspective; money becomes oh so important when you have a government-supplied and maintained computer attached to your stomach that literally keeps you alive!  Tongue For some people, money is literally a matter of life and death.
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« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2013, 07:56:12 AM »

Money is to man what flower stems are to bees.
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« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2013, 10:00:39 AM »

Money is important because we still need it to buy food, drinks to sustain our life.

It is not important because we cannot bring any of it to our eternal life. It cannot buy friendship and draw us closer to Jesus

So, what are your views on money?

Haha, I seriously talk about this subject all the time.....   Here's the answer, and it may be strange or controversial to some... But I'll try to be as honest as possible.

First as Christians we were commanded to not be of this world.   We were also told we are set aside from this world.  This means that a worldly way of thinking, worldly mentality, and worldly understanding of worldly things should not apply to us as Christians.

With this said, I'll start by giving you a chunk of my personal life.  My family raises FULLY ORGANIC FREE RANGE farm animals.  This means that we do not give them feed, we allow them to roam pasture lands for their food.   Their water is either from our stream (leading to our pond), or water catchment.   The animals all eat grass, shrubs, bugs, etc., for their food supply.  

I've raised baby goats directly from their mothers, straight to the grass & leaves into adulthood, until they produce their own milk.   The bucks I have slaughtered, raised directly from grass.

We cut the goats forage sometimes (evergreen trimmings - Cedar) during the winter months, which they chomp on.  After they clean the sticks of green, we chip them into wood chips for mulch on our garden.  We do use a power chipper, but it can be done with hatchets as well.

We have skinned goats, tanned hides, and my wife has made moccasins out of the leathers...
We have sheared animals (sheep and angora rabbits), spun yarn, and my wife & daughter knit...
We have made soap out of animal fat, raised off pasture grasses and leaves.  

The soap lye was made from the ashes of the fire that we smoked the goat meat on.

Honestly, I do believe with natural housing (cob, rammed earth, or simply a log cabin), stones for fireplaces, some tools, that god has provided us with EVERYTHING we need to live.

It's our worldly ways with worldly needs that cause us to "need" money.

Taxation is another subject, but in my country, if you don't earn money, you don't pay an income tax.  There are other taxes (within transactions), but let's not complicate the matter further.

There are many people who build homes for free out of natural materials/garbage.  (youtube earthships)


The only "Christian" answer I can give you is that "NO" money is not important.  God has given us everything we need to live, shelter, wash, eat, drink, clothe, and play with.... All for free in his creation.  Unfortunately, most of us (I'm trying I promise) are scared to take the steps necessary to "leave" the world and live within the beauty of his creation.

In our worldly ways, I believe money should be a back burner issue, NOT IMPORTANT.   We should use as little of it as NEEDED, and only buy with a pure contented spirit, as we work our way out of these worldly ways.

Perpetual debt, buying from exploitive corporations (and ones that support planned parenthood), and never living past a 40-50 hour shift to pay for a sofa and television set at night, seems rather enslaving.   Like cattle being led into the stalls at night...  

God has given us so much self sustaining beauty.   Every year I learn more and more about it.  It's terrifying yet amazing to watch it progress.   'Permaculture' was God's design, all self sustaining.    God is good, and gave us everything we need....   Our "failure" to embrace it, creates reliance on a worldly system of money.

Anyway, those are the thoughts I have on the subject.... It's just amazing as we had our 4th generation of chicks just start laying WITHOUT EVER feeding them any chicken feed.  they nibble TEENY sand fragments for grit when they are chicks.  Smiley    The mother hens kill bugs for them too.... They'll peck at little strands of grass, fleas, etc....

God is good.  God gives us hope.



EDIT - Electricity can be created from wind power.  I've built a windmill out of an old treadmill motor, and and old 6" diameter PVC pipe cut into blades for the wind generator.   I stuck a diode on it, and watched it charge a bank of golf cart batteries (wired in series parallel) and ran a 12V inverter off it for 120V A/C power.    ALL built from garbage.   Even the battery bank was desulphated old golf cart batteries (restored), the wiring was off an old welder to hold the amperage between the batts.

Amazingly awesome stuff, all for free, from garbage...

God gives in that which people waste.

First of all, RESPECT! Honestly.
It truly is wonderful how you have done all of this. Good for you.

I was tremendously interested in "living off of the grid" for many, many years myself. I have many books on homesteading and alternative housing, etc. But alas, I am quite literally tied to the monetary system. I'll explain. Not only do my wife and I have ENORMOUS student loans (kids... avoid these!), but I have had Type 1 diabetes for the last 5 years now. Thanks to the government in my province, I get tons of funding and subsidies to pay for my medical needs. If I had to pay out of the pocket, I'd be screwed. It costs me about $3-400 a month just for test strips to check my glucose levels, $250 for pump supplies, and lots more for insulin. Anyway, it adds up! Of course, having student loans and the high costs of just every day life, I am forced to work as much as I can in my profession to pay my way and raise my family, not mention keep myself alive.

Anyway, I do not mean to make this a sob story or take away from what you are doing. I admire you for what you've done and would encourage anyone to move towards simplicity as you have, and stay out of the money race as much as possible. I just wanted to share a different perspective; money becomes oh so important when you have a government-supplied and maintained computer attached to your stomach that literally keeps you alive!  Tongue For some people, money is literally a matter of life and death.

I join you in your respect for how YiM has managed his lifestyle and the simplicity of it.  Alas, as you clearly point out, not everyone these days is able to emulate him in that, for a whole host of reasons.
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« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2013, 10:53:23 AM »

Money is important because we still need it to buy food, drinks to sustain our life.

It is not important because we cannot bring any of it to our eternal life. It cannot buy friendship and draw us closer to Jesus

So, what are your views on money?

Haha, I seriously talk about this subject all the time.....   Here's the answer, and it may be strange or controversial to some... But I'll try to be as honest as possible.

First as Christians we were commanded to not be of this world.   We were also told we are set aside from this world.  This means that a worldly way of thinking, worldly mentality, and worldly understanding of worldly things should not apply to us as Christians.

With this said, I'll start by giving you a chunk of my personal life.  My family raises FULLY ORGANIC FREE RANGE farm animals.  This means that we do not give them feed, we allow them to roam pasture lands for their food.   Their water is either from our stream (leading to our pond), or water catchment.   The animals all eat grass, shrubs, bugs, etc., for their food supply.  

I've raised baby goats directly from their mothers, straight to the grass & leaves into adulthood, until they produce their own milk.   The bucks I have slaughtered, raised directly from grass.

We cut the goats forage sometimes (evergreen trimmings - Cedar) during the winter months, which they chomp on.  After they clean the sticks of green, we chip them into wood chips for mulch on our garden.  We do use a power chipper, but it can be done with hatchets as well.

We have skinned goats, tanned hides, and my wife has made moccasins out of the leathers...
We have sheared animals (sheep and angora rabbits), spun yarn, and my wife & daughter knit...
We have made soap out of animal fat, raised off pasture grasses and leaves.  

The soap lye was made from the ashes of the fire that we smoked the goat meat on.

Honestly, I do believe with natural housing (cob, rammed earth, or simply a log cabin), stones for fireplaces, some tools, that god has provided us with EVERYTHING we need to live.

It's our worldly ways with worldly needs that cause us to "need" money.

Taxation is another subject, but in my country, if you don't earn money, you don't pay an income tax.  There are other taxes (within transactions), but let's not complicate the matter further.

There are many people who build homes for free out of natural materials/garbage.  (youtube earthships)


The only "Christian" answer I can give you is that "NO" money is not important.  God has given us everything we need to live, shelter, wash, eat, drink, clothe, and play with.... All for free in his creation.  Unfortunately, most of us (I'm trying I promise) are scared to take the steps necessary to "leave" the world and live within the beauty of his creation.

In our worldly ways, I believe money should be a back burner issue, NOT IMPORTANT.   We should use as little of it as NEEDED, and only buy with a pure contented spirit, as we work our way out of these worldly ways.

Perpetual debt, buying from exploitive corporations (and ones that support planned parenthood), and never living past a 40-50 hour shift to pay for a sofa and television set at night, seems rather enslaving.   Like cattle being led into the stalls at night...  

God has given us so much self sustaining beauty.   Every year I learn more and more about it.  It's terrifying yet amazing to watch it progress.   'Permaculture' was God's design, all self sustaining.    God is good, and gave us everything we need....   Our "failure" to embrace it, creates reliance on a worldly system of money.

Anyway, those are the thoughts I have on the subject.... It's just amazing as we had our 4th generation of chicks just start laying WITHOUT EVER feeding them any chicken feed.  they nibble TEENY sand fragments for grit when they are chicks.  Smiley    The mother hens kill bugs for them too.... They'll peck at little strands of grass, fleas, etc....

God is good.  God gives us hope.



EDIT - Electricity can be created from wind power.  I've built a windmill out of an old treadmill motor, and and old 6" diameter PVC pipe cut into blades for the wind generator.   I stuck a diode on it, and watched it charge a bank of golf cart batteries (wired in series parallel) and ran a 12V inverter off it for 120V A/C power.    ALL built from garbage.   Even the battery bank was desulphated old golf cart batteries (restored), the wiring was off an old welder to hold the amperage between the batts.

Amazingly awesome stuff, all for free, from garbage...

God gives in that which people waste.

Wonderful Sharing!

I live in Hong Kong. Since Hong Kong is the Asian financial center,money is very important for almost everybody. Money is always the only tool to measure the success of a man in Hong Kong. There are also many rich men there.However, people is always very  busy and always worry about their money. It cannot truly bring happiness to us.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 11:02:53 AM by walter1234 » Logged
walter1234
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« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2013, 11:04:59 AM »

Yes, because without it, what else would I be able to give the poor? It's not like I can carry a hot meal around with me or shelter all the time.

How about Mother Teresa?
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yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2013, 04:36:24 PM »

Money is important because we still need it to buy food, drinks to sustain our life.

It is not important because we cannot bring any of it to our eternal life. It cannot buy friendship and draw us closer to Jesus

So, what are your views on money?

Haha, I seriously talk about this subject all the time.....   Here's the answer, and it may be strange or controversial to some... But I'll try to be as honest as possible.

First as Christians we were commanded to not be of this world.   We were also told we are set aside from this world.  This means that a worldly way of thinking, worldly mentality, and worldly understanding of worldly things should not apply to us as Christians.

With this said, I'll start by giving you a chunk of my personal life.  My family raises FULLY ORGANIC FREE RANGE farm animals.  This means that we do not give them feed, we allow them to roam pasture lands for their food.   Their water is either from our stream (leading to our pond), or water catchment.   The animals all eat grass, shrubs, bugs, etc., for their food supply.  

I've raised baby goats directly from their mothers, straight to the grass & leaves into adulthood, until they produce their own milk.   The bucks I have slaughtered, raised directly from grass.

We cut the goats forage sometimes (evergreen trimmings - Cedar) during the winter months, which they chomp on.  After they clean the sticks of green, we chip them into wood chips for mulch on our garden.  We do use a power chipper, but it can be done with hatchets as well.

We have skinned goats, tanned hides, and my wife has made moccasins out of the leathers...
We have sheared animals (sheep and angora rabbits), spun yarn, and my wife & daughter knit...
We have made soap out of animal fat, raised off pasture grasses and leaves.  

The soap lye was made from the ashes of the fire that we smoked the goat meat on.

Honestly, I do believe with natural housing (cob, rammed earth, or simply a log cabin), stones for fireplaces, some tools, that god has provided us with EVERYTHING we need to live.

It's our worldly ways with worldly needs that cause us to "need" money.

Taxation is another subject, but in my country, if you don't earn money, you don't pay an income tax.  There are other taxes (within transactions), but let's not complicate the matter further.

There are many people who build homes for free out of natural materials/garbage.  (youtube earthships)


The only "Christian" answer I can give you is that "NO" money is not important.  God has given us everything we need to live, shelter, wash, eat, drink, clothe, and play with.... All for free in his creation.  Unfortunately, most of us (I'm trying I promise) are scared to take the steps necessary to "leave" the world and live within the beauty of his creation.

In our worldly ways, I believe money should be a back burner issue, NOT IMPORTANT.   We should use as little of it as NEEDED, and only buy with a pure contented spirit, as we work our way out of these worldly ways.

Perpetual debt, buying from exploitive corporations (and ones that support planned parenthood), and never living past a 40-50 hour shift to pay for a sofa and television set at night, seems rather enslaving.   Like cattle being led into the stalls at night...  

God has given us so much self sustaining beauty.   Every year I learn more and more about it.  It's terrifying yet amazing to watch it progress.   'Permaculture' was God's design, all self sustaining.    God is good, and gave us everything we need....   Our "failure" to embrace it, creates reliance on a worldly system of money.

Anyway, those are the thoughts I have on the subject.... It's just amazing as we had our 4th generation of chicks just start laying WITHOUT EVER feeding them any chicken feed.  they nibble TEENY sand fragments for grit when they are chicks.  Smiley    The mother hens kill bugs for them too.... They'll peck at little strands of grass, fleas, etc....

God is good.  God gives us hope.



EDIT - Electricity can be created from wind power.  I've built a windmill out of an old treadmill motor, and and old 6" diameter PVC pipe cut into blades for the wind generator.   I stuck a diode on it, and watched it charge a bank of golf cart batteries (wired in series parallel) and ran a 12V inverter off it for 120V A/C power.    ALL built from garbage.   Even the battery bank was desulphated old golf cart batteries (restored), the wiring was off an old welder to hold the amperage between the batts.

Amazingly awesome stuff, all for free, from garbage...

God gives in that which people waste.

First of all, RESPECT! Honestly.
It truly is wonderful how you have done all of this. Good for you.

I was tremendously interested in "living off of the grid" for many, many years myself. I have many books on homesteading and alternative housing, etc. But alas, I am quite literally tied to the monetary system. I'll explain. Not only do my wife and I have ENORMOUS student loans (kids... avoid these!), but I have had Type 1 diabetes for the last 5 years now. Thanks to the government in my province, I get tons of funding and subsidies to pay for my medical needs. If I had to pay out of the pocket, I'd be screwed. It costs me about $3-400 a month just for test strips to check my glucose levels, $250 for pump supplies, and lots more for insulin. Anyway, it adds up! Of course, having student loans and the high costs of just every day life, I am forced to work as much as I can in my profession to pay my way and raise my family, not mention keep myself alive.

Anyway, I do not mean to make this a sob story or take away from what you are doing. I admire you for what you've done and would encourage anyone to move towards simplicity as you have, and stay out of the money race as much as possible. I just wanted to share a different perspective; money becomes oh so important when you have a government-supplied and maintained computer attached to your stomach that literally keeps you alive!  Tongue For some people, money is literally a matter of life and death.

I join you in your respect for how YiM has managed his lifestyle and the simplicity of it.  Alas, as you clearly point out, not everyone these days is able to emulate him in that, for a whole host of reasons.

I thank both of you.  There are amazing things I come across all the time trying to "reach back" to the way God created stuff.   I realize after trying this for a while, that I know so little about his creation for us.  Even if you are tied to the monetary system, you can still benefit a lot by embracing the creation as much as possible.
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I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2013, 04:44:41 PM »

It is important if you don't have any, or enough, but too much brings troubles.  We need just enough to survive, possibly a little more. 

Personally, I prefer the old barter system.  If you aren’t productive, you can’t trade.  If you can’t trade, you can’t eat.  If you can’t eat...well, you get the picture.  Everyone works, no welfare.


Yep, I agree. My philosophy is that the Church should be self-sufficient. No member of the Body of Christ should need welfare, insurance, or governmental health care. We should take care of one another and follow the model of the first Christians.

"And they sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had a need." [Acts 2:45]


Selam

I agree completely.  Originally tithes went towards widows & orphans (or the helpless).  Those in the church built the church (or worshiped outside, in tombs, or homes), but the funding went to help the helpless and those in need. 

BUT even if this was not tithe money, there could be a "general fund" between the church brothers and sisters to help those in need.

There are many "Christian medical sharing funds" available too...  They even qualify for Obamacare regulations.
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« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2013, 09:47:45 AM »

I believe the concept of currency is as old as the story of Genisis. Did God not ask for sacrifices to be burnt as offerings and worship? Even he asks for something in return for that which is freely given. What did He intent to teach with that? Well, I am certainly no priest, but I feel the lesson on currency is in the heart, as displayed by Cain and Abel. The currency has no value until it is given or exchanged and is somewhat subjective in the mutual agreement of its worthiness in a transaction between both parties. Abel's was good, Cain's was not, because of their heart and intent.

To me this shows that currency is a tool, and inert until used. We have the ability to make its value, and its usefulness a tool of goodness or evil. Trade is another chance for us to show our character, fairness, and goodness. Amounts are irrelevant, the purpose is everything.

Money, specifically, has great power associated with it today because it is the agreed currency for commerce the world over. The Church and its parishioners, can have a much more powerful witness with it, than without it, because of the mutual agreement the world places upon it as a tool. It is how we take care of our families, our community, and our place of worship.

The love of money is the root of all evil, in that it will replace God in our hearts. Money itself is nothing more that a representation of the effort, respect, and intent for which it is exchanged for something else.

At least that is how I see it.
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