Author Topic: Rosewater on Good Friday  (Read 2589 times)

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Offline mpark1917

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Rosewater on Good Friday
« on: April 23, 2013, 01:46:08 AM »
I read that rosewater is used during the Good Friday liturgy to sprinkle the congregation. Do all Orthodox traditions do this? Is the rosewater different from the usual holy water (as in a different blessing)? And can I bring a bottle of rosewater to be blessed and use in cooking?

Offline mike

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2013, 01:52:49 AM »
Never heard of that.
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Offline ag_vn

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2013, 04:27:25 AM »
I read that rosewater is used during the Good Friday liturgy to sprinkle the congregation. Do all Orthodox traditions do this?

They do this in Bulgaria.

Offline Cantor Krishnich

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2013, 06:23:31 AM »
I read that rosewater is used during the Good Friday liturgy to sprinkle the congregation. Do all Orthodox traditions do this? Is the rosewater different from the usual holy water (as in a different blessing)? And can I bring a bottle of rosewater to be blessed and use in cooking?

Rosewater is used during Good Friday to sprinkle the congregation, it is also sprinkled on the Epitaphios. Icons and holy objects are to be cleaned using rosewater and it is also added to holy water and baptismal water sometimes. This is usually used in churches that follow Hellenic traditions or non-Russian traditions (Greek, Arab, Bulgarian, Serbian, Albanian, Georgian, Cypriot, etc.) all the Oriental Orthodox churches use it in a similar manner. Although rose water is occasionally added to holy water, it is different from holy water which has been sanctified. You couldn't bring a bottle of holy water to blessed for cooking. It may be permissible to add a little rose water to holy water, of course not for cooking (ask your priest).
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2013, 09:29:42 AM »

Offline LBK

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2013, 09:39:13 AM »
Never heard of that.

Neither have I.

It's a Greek custom, as Cantor Krishnich said. I've never come across it in Russian tradition, but it is definitely something the Greeks do. I well remember one little fellow, no more than four, furrowing his brow and saying to his mom: Why is that silly man wetting us?  :D
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 09:40:59 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2013, 09:58:38 AM »
Never heard of that.

Neither have I.

It's a Greek custom, as Cantor Krishnich said. I've never come across it in Russian tradition, but it is definitely something the Greeks do.
It's Arab too, and spreading in the OCA.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2013, 10:13:47 AM »

What is the purpose of the water sprinkling on Holy Friday?
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2013, 10:20:09 AM »
Never heard of that.

Neither have I.

It's a Greek custom, as Cantor Krishnich said. I've never come across it in Russian tradition, but it is definitely something the Greeks do.
It's Arab too, and spreading in the OCA.

Ah, more nibbling at the salad bar of local tradition. As Orthodox parishes expand into new communities and our older ones consolidate, we will see practices which are "New" to me or you. That is natural and organic.What I can't stand is a priest artificially adding something because he "likes" it to the practice of an established community. Without context, such can cause needless anxiety and division.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 10:24:05 AM by podkarpatska »

Offline mike

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2013, 10:22:07 AM »
What I can't stand is a priest artificially adding something because he "like it to the practice of an established community. Without context, such can cause needless anxiety and division.

I was thinking about starting a thread about it.
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Offline arimethea

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2013, 12:11:25 PM »
The Rose water is used to during the Third Stasis of The Lamentations during the verse that speaks of the Women bringing myrrh to the grave. That verse is repeated over and over again until the entire church has been sprinkled.
Joseph

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2013, 12:43:14 PM »

Nice tradition.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2013, 12:53:20 PM »
Never heard of that.

Neither have I.

It's a Greek custom, as Cantor Krishnich said. I've never come across it in Russian tradition, but it is definitely something the Greeks do.
It's Arab too, and spreading in the OCA.

Ah, more nibbling at the salad bar of local tradition. As Orthodox parishes expand into new communities and our older ones consolidate, we will see practices which are "New" to me or you. That is natural and organic.What I can't stand is a priest artificially adding something because he "likes" it to the practice of an established community. Without context, such can cause needless anxiety and division.
Didn't Patriarch Nikon try that?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2013, 01:03:37 PM »
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2013, 01:06:22 PM »
Never heard of that.

Neither have I.

It's a Greek custom, as Cantor Krishnich said. I've never come across it in Russian tradition, but it is definitely something the Greeks do.
It's Arab too, and spreading in the OCA.

Ah, more nibbling at the salad bar of local tradition. As Orthodox parishes expand into new communities and our older ones consolidate, we will see practices which are "New" to me or you. That is natural and organic.What I can't stand is a priest artificially adding something because he "likes" it to the practice of an established community. Without context, such can cause needless anxiety and division.
Didn't Patriarch Nikon try that?

As did any number of American priests in any number of jurisdictions over the years!  ;)

Offline Romaios

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2013, 01:09:47 PM »
They do that in my parish on Megali Paraskeui every year too.  :angel:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x90zyi_a-part-from-the-ceremony-on-holy-fr_lifestyle#.UXa_4EpR6t8

Oh, no! Have ye no proper sprinkler? And rose petals thrown like they were laurel leaves for Pascha... Outrage!  :laugh:  


Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2013, 01:14:23 PM »

That's so "unlike" our Holy Friday services.  Our church is kept dark, voices are somber and there are no flowers being thrown.

Interesting.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Romaios

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2013, 01:23:45 PM »
That's so "unlike" our Holy Friday services.  Our church is kept dark, voices are somber and there are no flowers being thrown.

Too much sobriety for Holy Friday? Latin influence.  ;)




Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2013, 01:26:05 PM »

Ewww....no...we aren't "that" dark.

However, not all the lights are turned on.  The sanctuary remains dimmed, with mostly just candlelight flickering.


« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 01:31:01 PM by LizaSymonenko »
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline SakranMM

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2013, 02:36:16 PM »
We do this in the Antiochian tradition as well.  The Great Friday services are indeed somber, but if you listen to the hymns, there are hints of the resurrectional joy already being foretold.  "Bright Sadness," as Fr. Alexander Schmemann of blessed memory put it.
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Offline mildert

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2013, 06:19:32 AM »
I've seen it done well in Greek Churches.  The problem is when people get carried away and damage the plaschanitsa/epitaphios due to too liberal sprinkling/dousing....
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Offline Opus118

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2013, 09:46:55 AM »

Nice tradition.

It seems like the differences in tradition during Holy Week keep accumulating.
So far,
Holy Unction on Holy Wednesday is missing
Rose water on Good Friday is missing
The explosive tossing of laurel leaves on Holy Saturday is missing

Offline Fotina02

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2013, 10:26:03 AM »
Getting sprinkled with holy water at Great Friday Lamentations is a favorite part of the service, and the procession outside singing Holy God, and the anti-phonal chanting, and venerating the burial icon, and receiving a flower from the bier, and more! It's somber yet joyous.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2013, 11:10:57 AM »

Nice tradition.

It seems like the differences in tradition during Holy Week keep accumulating.
So far,
Holy Unction on Holy Wednesday is missing
Rose water on Good Friday is missing
The explosive tossing of laurel leaves on Holy Saturday is missing

...are you referring to my church in particular or in a broader sense?
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline sheenj

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2013, 11:13:58 AM »

Nice tradition.

It seems like the differences in tradition during Holy Week keep accumulating.
So far,
Holy Unction on Holy Wednesday is missing
Rose water on Good Friday is missing
The explosive tossing of laurel leaves on Holy Saturday is missing

You realize that most of these are local traditions which never spread to other regions right?

Offline Opus118

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2013, 11:16:34 AM »

Nice tradition.

It seems like the differences in tradition during Holy Week keep accumulating.
So far,
Holy Unction on Holy Wednesday is missing
Rose water on Good Friday is missing
The explosive tossing of laurel leaves on Holy Saturday is missing

...are you referring to my church in particular or in a broader sense?


You are the only one asking questions or remarking about it (initially) Liza. I am grateful for it, otherwise I would not have known nor would I have thought it possible.

Offline Opus118

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2013, 11:17:33 AM »

Nice tradition.

It seems like the differences in tradition during Holy Week keep accumulating.
So far,
Holy Unction on Holy Wednesday is missing
Rose water on Good Friday is missing
The explosive tossing of laurel leaves on Holy Saturday is missing

You realize that most of these are local traditions which never spread to other regions right?

No I didn't.

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2013, 01:08:16 PM »
Looking at all the little liturgical differences between churches, I find myself liking most of them. Until I joined my current OCA church, I had never been exposed to partaking of bread and wine after taking communion in the middle of the church (served by little girls); Holy Friday flower girls; the horsetail holy water dispenser; the reading by lay women and men of the many Old Testament passages during the Holy Saturday DL; the prayers for travelers and birthday/anniversary/etc. celebrants and singing Many Years to them; the reading aloud of post-communion prayers while the congregation receives the antidoron; agape meals after every Sunday DL and Lent Presanctifieds. When I went to my daughter's church wedding in an Antiochian Church, I attended Great Vespers the night before and was very impressed with a group of six young folks, converts all, who did a great job in chanting in English in a way that made it possible for the congregation to join in.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2013, 01:17:56 PM »

Isn't Orthodoxy grand!?!  I just love everything about it!

How anyone can learn about Orthodoxy and not love it, is beyond me.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline mildert

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2013, 09:58:06 AM »

Nice tradition.

It seems like the differences in tradition during Holy Week keep accumulating.
So far,
Holy Unction on Holy Wednesday is missing
Rose water on Good Friday is missing
The explosive tossing of laurel leaves on Holy Saturday is missing
I wouldn't say Holy Unction is missing - there are many parishes of the Russian tradition which do it however it is originally a Greek practice.
On the other hand there are practices in the Russian tradition which do not appear in the Greek - such as changing all the Vestments and Hangings from Black to White just before the Gospel is read on Holy Saturday.
In XC,

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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2013, 10:42:28 AM »

We, Ukrainians do that, as well.

Tricky part is that it's not the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom...and I have a hard time figuring out WHEN the Gospel will be read....so, I make many false starts to remove the cloths, only to catch myself and move away, and start, and stop.....

I think Father ought to give me a signal this year!  ;)
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2013, 10:51:54 AM »

Nice tradition.

It seems like the differences in tradition during Holy Week keep accumulating.
So far,
Holy Unction on Holy Wednesday is missing
Rose water on Good Friday is missing
The explosive tossing of laurel leaves on Holy Saturday is missing
I wouldn't say Holy Unction is missing - there are many parishes of the Russian tradition which do it however it is originally a Greek practice.
On the other hand there are practices in the Russian tradition which do not appear in the Greek - such as changing all the Vestments and Hangings from Black to White just before the Gospel is read on Holy Saturday.

We do that also. That was one of my favorites as a youngster and altar boy...it meant that the Velikden was nearly upon us  and the blessing of the baskets would soon follow!

Offline Cantor Krishnich

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2013, 10:57:08 AM »

What is the purpose of the water sprinkling on Holy Friday?

The rosewater and myrrh oil used in the Holy Friday services are a liturgical re-enactment of the burial of Christ by the Holy Myrrh-bearers. Rosewater is frequently used for liturgical purposes in the Greek, Arab, Balkan, and Middle Eastern churches.

For example, Slavs welcome bishops with bread, salt, and cloth thingys  :), Greeks and other churches welcome bishops with incense and by washing their hands with rose water.
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Offline ambatzoglou

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2013, 07:11:44 PM »
The Rose water is used to during the Third Stasis of The Lamentations during the verse that speaks of the Women bringing myrrh to the grave. That verse is repeated over and over again until the entire church has been sprinkled.

This. My service book is wrinkly and smells beautiful from several years of rose water hitting the same pages. I miss it very much now that I am in a church with roots in Russia.

Offline mildert

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2013, 05:57:34 AM »

We, Ukrainians do that, as well.

Tricky part is that it's not the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom...and I have a hard time figuring out WHEN the Gospel will be read....so, I make many false starts to remove the cloths, only to catch myself and move away, and start, and stop.....

I think Father ought to give me a signal this year!  ;)

It's when the choir sings "Arise, O God" after the reading of the Apostol.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2013, 08:07:44 AM »

Excellent!

So, when the Reader takes his position, I know to get the crew set to go.

Thanks!

I have not Liturgical texts to refer to.  :)

Now, if I recall correctly, it's not at all like the Liturgy of St. John.  The Gospel Reading is actually later in the Liturgy.  No?
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline mildert

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2013, 08:12:11 AM »

Excellent!

So, when the Reader takes his position, I know to get the crew set to go.

Thanks!

I have not Liturgical texts to refer to.  :)

Now, if I recall correctly, it's not at all like the Liturgy of St. John.  The Gospel Reading is actually later in the Liturgy.  No?

Sorry for the slow response - I've been a little busy recently  ;)

Here is a link to the Service text: http://www.saintjonah.org/services/typvesplit_holysat.doc
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Rosewater on Good Friday
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2013, 09:05:37 AM »

That's so "unlike" our Holy Friday services.  Our church is kept dark, voices are somber and there are no flowers being thrown.

Interesting.

Greek Holy Friday services are very somber, lights off and all. But the service normally celebrated in anticipation on Holy Friday evening is the Matins of Holy Saturday, which is why a sense of joy is already beginning to creep in.