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Author Topic: This question might be to general to answer but.....  (Read 559 times) Average Rating: 0
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Ashman618
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« on: April 21, 2013, 03:54:47 PM »

How do we determine the line between trusting God and testing God?

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Putnik Namernik
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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2013, 12:12:17 PM »

You know it in your heart and God knows your heart.
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katherineofdixie
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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2013, 03:12:40 PM »

I'm probably misunderstanding you, but they don't seem to be the same thing at all or even close to it. Can you explain a little bit?
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Ashman618
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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2013, 05:08:57 PM »

Ok how about the lives of the desert saints who traveled through the desert trusting God to provide there food

well does that mean I can go into the desert or woods without food and say to myself well God did it for them He will do it for me

Is that trust or a test..... The line, to me at least, is blurry.
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Putnik Namernik
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« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2013, 06:15:04 PM »

I'm probably misunderstanding you, but they don't seem to be the same thing at all or even close to it. Can you explain a little bit?

If you are talking to me I shall elaborate a bit. When you ask of something of, you yourself know whether you are asking honestly (as in needing something) and not demanding or expecting it from God because he has to listen to your requests and it makes sense according to your-our reasoning. In this case (whether we ask from God wholeheartedly with hope, or by demand because let's say we want someone to be healed and God should therefore help us - examples from Bible where Jesus helps various people) the request comes from heart and sometimes is and other times it is not carried out. Even when we ask of God to do something (appear or act in such a way that we are certain of His existence...anything along the lines of contributing towards strengthening our faith or the faith of others - ie. the case of doubting Thomas) is acceptable and God may do so...because we are not testing him nor putting ourselves above Him...
However, when we ask of God to do something just so we can test him (ie. the evil one asking Jesus in desert to test whether God - Father will help God -Son Jesus Christ should Jesus Christs even trip over a rock...for it that case God would send Angels to help Jesus Christ...you can read Jesus' reply). 

Hope that was clearer.
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Putnik Namernik
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2013, 06:22:06 PM »

Ok how about the lives of the desert saints who traveled through the desert trusting God to provide there food

well does that mean I can go into the desert or woods without food and say to myself well God did it for them He will do it for me

Is that trust or a test..... The line, to me at least, is blurry.
Everything goes back to the original question: did they (desert saints) go to isolated places just to test whether God will help them or did they go to those places believing that God will help them when it was necessary. I believe they went there beacause they believed that God will help them.

Is your faith that great and that much strong? If it is then please pray for me a sinner...Then there is nothing in life that should worry you such as where you live, if you get sick...God will take care of it.  The problem arises if you are going to go there to see whether God will do as you expect (which is you testing Him).  On the other note, the problem which all of us humans have is the lack of faith. That is why we worried with every little stupid thing (not having enough money being the first...and then everything else with it).

Does it make sense?

Priests and or theologians from the forum can confirm and or deny my comments...
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 06:22:55 PM by Putnik Namernik » Logged
Ashman618
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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2013, 08:31:19 PM »

Ok how about the lives of the desert saints who traveled through the desert trusting God to provide there food

well does that mean I can go into the desert or woods without food and say to myself well God did it for them He will do it for me

Is that trust or a test..... The line, to me at least, is blurry.
Everything goes back to the original question: did they (desert saints) go to isolated places just to test whether God will help them or did they go to those places believing that God will help them when it was necessary. I believe they went there beacause they believed that God will help them.

Is your faith that great and that much strong? If it is then please pray for me a sinner...Then there is nothing in life that should worry you such as where you live, if you get sick...God will take care of it.  The problem arises if you are going to go there to see whether God will do as you expect (which is you testing Him).  On the other note, the problem which all of us humans have is the lack of faith. That is why we worried with every little stupid thing (not having enough money being the first...and then everything else with it).

Does it make sense?

Priests and or theologians from the forum can confirm and or deny my comments...

I get ya I really do but still.....living my life with firm trust that God has the bare essentials taken care of kinda seems like...... Lol cheating, even to the point that I might be in delusion about it.

This faith thing is rough for me!  Undecided

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Putnik Namernik
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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2013, 08:41:59 PM »

It is not cheating.  It is the way things are they the way they ought to be. As soon as we stopped trusting that God will look after us and provide us with what we need ("knowledge"), we listened to the evil one and took a bite...Ever since then we have been struggling even in believing whether He exists let alone other things...It's not just you, it is all of us.
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Great googly moogly!


« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2013, 08:49:19 PM »

Here Jesus tells the crowd that they must pray for something and then believe that they have received it, So you must truly believe and have faith and you will be rewarded.

Many times I have had doubts if I was going to be ok in different situations, and every time , My prayers were answered.  Some would say it just seemed that way, but I truly believed and was rewarded because of believing. If you question it , then you are lost.

Mark 11
22“Have faith in God,” Jesus answered. 23“Trulyf I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.” [26]g

« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 08:50:30 PM by Sinful Hypocrite » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2013, 09:21:18 PM »

Here Jesus tells the crowd that they must pray for something and then believe that they have received it, So you must truly believe and have faith and you will be rewarded.

Many times I have had doubts if I was going to be ok in different situations, and every time , My prayers were answered.  Some would say it just seemed that way, but I truly believed and was rewarded because of believing. If you question it , then you are lost.

Mark 11
22“Have faith in God,” Jesus answered. 23“Trulyf I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.” [26]g



If I had that much faith I would never worry about anything!

I would be in a world filled with trouble, fear and loneliness and I would be a walking utopia, how could I live with myself knowing what I have compared to others.
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Great googly moogly!


« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2013, 06:27:55 PM »

You misunderstand the point, and also that God is not going to give you Utopia.

James 4

Submit Yourselves to God

1What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
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The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“
Ashman618
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2013, 06:58:10 PM »

You misunderstand the point, and also that God is not going to give you Utopia.

James 4

Submit Yourselves to God

1What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

So God won't grant me freedom from fear of starvation, pain, death, freedom from worry, anxiety, addiction?

Not that I won't ever starve or feel pain or experiance death, but to be released from slavery to these things isn't that "paradise".

If I honestly and truely always believed that every second every half-second and half-half-second and so on is governed by Christ, and He has absolut authority over everything and everyone. If this awareness penetrated everything that I am, you cant tell me I wouldn't be a walking "utopia"?

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Ashman618
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2013, 07:02:05 PM »

Which brings me back to the original question, how do I know that I'm placing trust and faith in Him and I'm not just testing Him by saying "well He's got it under control, im set"
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Great googly moogly!


« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2013, 07:14:49 PM »

You misunderstand the point, and also that God is not going to give you Utopia.

James 4

Submit Yourselves to God

1What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

So God won't grant me freedom from fear of starvation, pain, death, freedom from worry, anxiety, addiction?

Not that I won't ever starve or feel pain or experiance death, but to be released from slavery to these things isn't that "paradise".

If I honestly and truely always believed that every second every half-second and half-half-second and so on is governed by Christ, and He has absolut authority over everything and everyone. If this awareness penetrated everything that I am, you cant tell me I wouldn't be a walking "utopia"?



When someone is crucified upside down for their belief in Jesus, That is not my idea of paradise. Many have been martyred in his name.

Paradise on Earth is more for the Devil and his work. If the world loves you then you may be working for the wrong side.

John 15
The World Hates the Disciples

18“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’b If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’c


 
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 07:15:29 PM by Sinful Hypocrite » Logged

The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“
Ashman618
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2013, 07:32:42 PM »

You misunderstand the point, and also that God is not going to give you Utopia.

James 4

Submit Yourselves to God

1What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

So God won't grant me freedom from fear of starvation, pain, death, freedom from worry, anxiety, addiction?

Not that I won't ever starve or feel pain or experiance death, but to be released from slavery to these things isn't that "paradise".

If I honestly and truely always believed that every second every half-second and half-half-second and so on is governed by Christ, and He has absolut authority over everything and everyone. If this awareness penetrated everything that I am, you cant tell me I wouldn't be a walking "utopia"?



When someone is crucified upside down for their belief in Jesus, That is not my idea of paradise. Many have been martyred in his name.

Paradise on Earth is more for the Devil and his work. If the world loves you then you may be working for the wrong side.

John 15
The World Hates the Disciples

18“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’b If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’c


 

So then being crucified upside down for Christ wasn't a blessing and a joy?

Being deamed worthy by the master, who could have easily prevented it, to suffer and be tortured wasn't bliss for a disciple?
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katherineofdixie
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« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2013, 09:27:46 AM »

Which brings me back to the original question, how do I know that I'm placing trust and faith in Him and I'm not just testing Him by saying "well He's got it under control, im set"

I'm not sure it's really possible for most of us, though the saints seem to have got it. Personally I don't think you're testing God to say or think that He's got it under control. He does, but what about that pesky and inconvenient free will He gave us? (Honestly, what was He thinking?!)
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Great googly moogly!


« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2013, 06:52:36 PM »

Ashman
Quote
So then being crucified upside down for Christ wasn't a blessing and a joy?

Being deamed worthy by the master, who could have easily prevented it, to suffer and be tortured wasn't bliss for a disciple?

Don't forget Jesus in the garden the nite before his crucifixion, he was aware of his fate but by no means did he look forward to the pain and cruelty .

Luke 22

"Father, if you are willing, please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine."

Dying is never fun and games.

Ask any soldier who has seen his friend die. But many have given their lives for others knowing that they would be in paradise after the pain and suffering has ended.

 It is the hardest thing to sacrifice oneself for another, but there are braver men than me.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 06:53:27 PM by Sinful Hypocrite » Logged

The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“
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