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Author Topic: Can we trust that God will right wrongs and punish sin?  (Read 1296 times) Average Rating: 0
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2013, 11:14:37 PM »

I don't feel like reading all the responses here, but all I can say is I really, REALLY hope that God will grant mercy to those who have sinned and have compassion on those who do wrong because if He doesn't, I'm totally screwed.

Behold, the answer!

I do not like this answer at all. I don't want Hitler or Stalin to be shown mercy for murdering millions just because I am shown mercy for resenting others, slothfulness and lust.

Well, enjoy hell. You've already put yourself in the place of God with this statement and your judgment of Hitler and Stalin--just like Satan.

To be frank, that is insane. And hypocritical. And not at all consistent with Christian tradition and its assignment of numerous individuals to hell.

You're just fishing there.
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« Reply #46 on: April 18, 2013, 11:20:49 PM »

I don't feel like reading all the responses here, but all I can say is I really, REALLY hope that God will grant mercy to those who have sinned and have compassion on those who do wrong because if He doesn't, I'm totally screwed.

Behold, the answer!

I do not like this answer at all. I don't want Hitler or Stalin to be shown mercy for murdering millions just because I am shown mercy for resenting others, slothfulness and lust.

Well, enjoy hell. You've already put yourself in the place of God with this statement and your judgment of Hitler and Stalin--just like Satan.

To be frank, that is insane. And hypocritical. And not at all consistent with Christian tradition and its assignment of numerous individuals to hell.

You're just fishing there.

No, I just don't buy the anti-traditional and anti-patristic sentimentalism that we can't say that people are in hell.
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Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant
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« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2013, 11:27:32 PM »


I just don't buy the anti-traditional and anti-patristic sentimentalism that we can't say that people are in hell.


Welcome to OC.net, where everyone is in communion, no one in the history of the world was a heretic (and certainly no one presently is), and where we collect and respect Buddhist statues while recommending that people integrate Jewish prayer shawls into their worship.
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« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2013, 01:50:03 AM »

I don't feel like reading all the responses here, but all I can say is I really, REALLY hope that God will grant mercy to those who have sinned and have compassion on those who do wrong because if He doesn't, I'm totally screwed.

Behold, the answer!

I do not like this answer at all. I don't want Hitler or Stalin to be shown mercy for murdering millions just because I am shown mercy for resenting others, slothfulness and lust.

What is it to you where Hitler and Stalin go? Even if they were to inherit paradise (obviously this would be most unlikely), you can be guaranteed that such a treatment would be just, as God is always just, even if it is not apparent how that would be so. You do not know better than God, and it is not your place to determine how people should be recompensed. Follow instead the example of Christ and the Apostles, by forgiving those that do you wrong, and praying for those that persecute you.
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« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2013, 02:23:35 AM »

Quote
Can we trust that God will right wrongs and punish sin?


In His own time and in His own way.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 02:23:56 AM by Kerdy » Logged
Shanghaiski
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« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2013, 08:09:26 AM »


I just don't buy the anti-traditional and anti-patristic sentimentalism that we can't say that people are in hell.


Welcome to OC.net, where everyone is in communion, no one in the history of the world was a heretic (and certainly no one presently is), and where we collect and respect Buddhist statues while recommending that people integrate Jewish prayer shawls into their worship.

None of that is what I said. What I did say is that to assign people to hell, to say that so-and-so deserves condemnation while I do not, is a grave error. It has at its heart pride and self-justification, which is what led to the fall of Satan and those who fell with him.
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
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I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Shanghaiski
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« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2013, 08:10:35 AM »

I don't feel like reading all the responses here, but all I can say is I really, REALLY hope that God will grant mercy to those who have sinned and have compassion on those who do wrong because if He doesn't, I'm totally screwed.

Behold, the answer!

I do not like this answer at all. I don't want Hitler or Stalin to be shown mercy for murdering millions just because I am shown mercy for resenting others, slothfulness and lust.

What is it to you where Hitler and Stalin go? Even if they were to inherit paradise (obviously this would be most unlikely), you can be guaranteed that such a treatment would be just, as God is always just, even if it is not apparent how that would be so. You do not know better than God, and it is not your place to determine how people should be recompensed. Follow instead the example of Christ and the Apostles, by forgiving those that do you wrong, and praying for those that persecute you.

Amen.
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
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« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2013, 09:31:29 PM »


I just don't buy the anti-traditional and anti-patristic sentimentalism that we can't say that people are in hell.


Welcome to OC.net, where everyone is in communion, no one in the history of the world was a heretic (and certainly no one presently is), and where we collect and respect Buddhist statues while recommending that people integrate Jewish prayer shawls into their worship.

None of that is what I said. What I did say is that to assign people to hell, to say that so-and-so deserves condemnation while I do not, is a grave error. It has at its heart pride and self-justification, which is what led to the fall of Satan and those who fell with him.

You are right.  My apologies for directing a somewhat scattered criticism in a way that seemed directed at your words; it was not. 
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« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2013, 01:31:17 PM »

How can the gospel tell you to neither take action into your own hands
Loving your enemies must not be merely a passive emotion. It is action.

nor hope that God will right the wrong?
Hope that God will right the wrong, not that he will harm evil-doers in vengeance.

Christian tradition and its assignment of numerous individuals to hell.
Are you talking about pornographic stories of "visions" where the propagandist sees Severus of Antioch or Nestorius in hell?

That's not the Christian tradition.

"Some Greeks did it in medieval times" is not Patristic tradition.

If someone poisoned Arius that was not the Patristic tradition.

"Someone stuck so-and-so's name on an erotic story about visions of hell' is not Patristic tradition. It's stuff that was going on in Patristic times, but during medieval times Bogomils were living in Constantinople, Arians in Rome, mobsters in Alexandria and Nestorians in Arabia. Antiquitas sine veritate vetustas erroris est.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 01:32:54 PM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2013, 11:46:54 PM »

How can the gospel tell you to neither take action into your own hands
Loving your enemies must not be merely a passive emotion. It is action.

nor hope that God will right the wrong?
Hope that God will right the wrong, not that he will harm evil-doers in vengeance.

Christian tradition and its assignment of numerous individuals to hell.
Are you talking about pornographic stories of "visions" where the propagandist sees Severus of Antioch or Nestorius in hell?

That's not the Christian tradition.

"Some Greeks did it in medieval times" is not Patristic tradition.

If someone poisoned Arius that was not the Patristic tradition.

"Someone stuck so-and-so's name on an erotic story about visions of hell' is not Patristic tradition. It's stuff that was going on in Patristic times, but during medieval times Bogomils were living in Constantinople, Arians in Rome, mobsters in Alexandria and Nestorians in Arabia. Antiquitas sine veritate vetustas erroris est.

Are patericons not patristic?
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2013, 12:32:53 AM »

Are patericons not patristic?
If they're porn they aren't.
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
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