Partying -- Is it un-Christian?

[HandmaidenofGod]

So if I eat for pleasure I'm sinning? If I listen to music for pleasure am I sinning? If I drink wine for pleasure am I sinning?

Rather than get the convoluded advice of an internet forum, I think this is a discussion best left between you and your Spiritual Father.

[Get_Behind_Me_Satan]

Drinking is bad, just look at this:
http://www.scionofzion.com/drinking.htm

St Maximos the Confessor says that Drunkenness is  a 'evil ecstacy'

37. The vine produces wine, the wine drunkenness and drunkenness an evil form of ecstasy. Similarly the intelligence - which is the vine - when well-nurtured and cultivated by the virtues, generates spiritual knowledge; and such knowledge produces a good form of ecstasy which enables the intellect to transcend its attachment to the senses.

St Maximos the Confessor Various Texts on Theology, the Divine Economy, and Virtue and Vice Second Century
Philokalia vol II

The whole book of Philokalia is on this website, I figured out how to unlock it so I can print it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Zu6&q=philokalia+st+michael&aq=f&aqi=&oq=

Just click on the first site and it will download.

Beware of reading these books without a spiritual father to guide you.

They are very very advanced in alot of the writings.

But the knowledge contained in them is so marlevous.

1Cor. 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

One of the greatest books ever created.

Read with caution.

With love, In Christ

As you assuming that every time someone drinks wine they become wildly inebriated and sin?

Drinking alcohol is not a sin.

But the misuse of it is.

If you drink it because you must feel intoxicated, then it is evil.

In all things misuse is a sin.

its just like eating when not necessary, or any other sin.

When you only use it for pleasure, and you do not have a good reason like a health problem, then it is sin.

Because you are only using it for pleasure, and not for what is was created for.

And that is evil.

But you start your post above with "Drinking is bad". So really what you meant to say was that "Drinking to excess, to get drunk is bad"? As regards to not drinking for pleasure, it would appear that those gathered for the wedding at Cana were drinking for pleasure to share the joy of the newly married, not because of any health problems.

Yeah, i should have said 'getting drunk is bad'.

My dad used to get really angry when he was drunk.
He had PTSD from vietnam.
And agent orange.

Its like he had to drink to stay alive, he was so traumatized.

Then I started drinking at 13, after that I started smoking pot, and then I started, snorting coke, and then I started taking ecstacy pills, and then I took lsd, and then I commited suicide.

Not good, not good.


Its called hedonism, it is evil, its what most people are these days, its what this world is so entrenched in.

It makes us slaves to the demons.


When I got drunk it made me like an animal, like a real fool.

Prov. 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

[Get_Behind_Me_Satan]

So if I eat for pleasure I'm sinning? If I listen to music for pleasure am I sinning? If I drink wine for pleasure am I sinning?

Its only when there's no purpose to do it, if you want to listen to music to relax, thats fine,
or if you eat when your hungry thats fine, or if you drink wine because you need to relax, or any other bodily need, thats ok.

If you read this book and find, 'St Maximos the Confessor,' '400 texts on love' he will tell you all about what you should know, and much much more.

Just go here and click on the first site there in google.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=WH&q=philokalia+st+michael&aq=f&aqi=&oq=

There you will find true knowledge, here is where, life and light is, here is true beauty.

Be careful in reading it though, its very advanced in alot of it.

These saints knew the truth and the life, they knew things that we could never know on the earth.

They lived on earth like they were already in heaven.

Talk to a spiritual counselor to guide you in reading it.

Remember this:
1Cor. 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

Thats exactly what this book can(or will) do to you if you are not guided by someone.

They learned all this from the Bible, they were Divinely illumined by the Spirit in order to comprehend the meaning of the Bible.

That is what the Philokalia is.

[Get_Behind_Me_Satan]

It can make you become proud from reading it.

[Robb]

Get_Behind_Me_Satan

You by chance wouldn't happen to be related to a fellow by name of Luigi who used to go on traditional Catholic internet forums, would you?

[Get_Behind_Me_Satan]

Get_Behind_Me_Satan

You by chance wouldn't happen to be related to a fellow by name of Luigi who used to go on traditional Catholic internet forums, would you?

No, Im not in relation with heretics.

[Robb]

Oh, you sound similar though.

[Get_Behind_Me_Satan]

Oh, you are more in relation to this guy then you think.

Who is it?

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

So if I eat for pleasure I'm sinning? If I listen to music for pleasure am I sinning? If I drink wine for pleasure am I sinning?

I think he said if you eat only for pleasure...


Selam

[88Devin12]

So if I eat for pleasure I'm sinning? If I listen to music for pleasure am I sinning? If I drink wine for pleasure am I sinning?

Rather than get the convoluded advice of an internet forum, I think this is a discussion best left between you and your Spiritual Father.

Sorry handmaiden, that reply was meant for Get_Behind_Me_Satan. I wasn't actually being serious... I apologize for having such a negative/confrontational tone.

[podkarpatska]

I believe Ecclesiastes 11:9 summarizes it nicely: "Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."

There is no sin and no evil in attending parties, even wild ones. There is no sin and no evil in imbibing alcohol and even getting dizzy or "tipsy" when you drink. There is, however, sin and evil in what you might do to your neighbor and to yourself as you attend parties and get drunk. So, you have to watch yourself.

A great Slavic answer!

[ms.hoorah]

While lounging in my Labatt Blue t-shirt, I'm posting a photo of Keith Richards.  This should discourage any wild partying.

[Keble]

Lucky for you Keith Richards is C of E.

[ms.hoorah]

^ He looks like one of their very first members.

“Look I can't do it, I'm a Rolling Stones Fan”
~ The Grim Reaper on Keith Richards ~

[Get_Behind_Me_Satan]

I believe Ecclesiastes 11:9 summarizes it nicely: "Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."

There is no sin and no evil in attending parties, even wild ones. There is no sin and no evil in imbibing alcohol and even getting dizzy or "tipsy" when you drink. There is, however, sin and evil in what you might do to your neighbor and to yourself as you attend parties and get drunk. So, you have to watch yourself.

A great Slavic answer!

But hear the words again:

Ecclesiastes 11:9 "Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."

[Heorhij]

I believe Ecclesiastes 11:9 summarizes it nicely: "Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."

There is no sin and no evil in attending parties, even wild ones. There is no sin and no evil in imbibing alcohol and even getting dizzy or "tipsy" when you drink. There is, however, sin and evil in what you might do to your neighbor and to yourself as you attend parties and get drunk. So, you have to watch yourself.

A great Slavic answer!

But hear the words again:

Ecclesiastes 11:9 "Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."

Which does not mean that you will be necessarily condemned for these things. For EVERYTHING you do, there will be judgment. Judgment and condemnation are not the same thing.

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

I believe Ecclesiastes 11:9 summarizes it nicely: "Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."

There is no sin and no evil in attending parties, even wild ones. There is no sin and no evil in imbibing alcohol and even getting dizzy or "tipsy" when you drink. There is, however, sin and evil in what you might do to your neighbor and to yourself as you attend parties and get drunk. So, you have to watch yourself.

A great Slavic answer!

But hear the words again:

Ecclesiastes 11:9 "Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."

Which does not mean that you will be necessarily condemned for these things. For EVERYTHING you do, there will be judgment. Judgment and condemnation are not the same thing.

Agreed. But remember the context of the book of Ecclesiastes, and remember the consequences that Solomon (the wisest of mortal men) suffered for his sins.

One of my favorite verses in the Holy Bible is Ecclesiastes 2:25 "For who can eat or who can have enjoyment apart from Him?"

John Piper, an evangelical pastor, wrote a book called Desiring God: Confessions of a Christian Hedonist. His thesis is that the purpose of man is "To glorify God by enjoying Him forever."

The world is suffering in part because human beings seek pleasure outside of Christ, and in this misguided pursuit they often bring misery and suffering to themselves and to others.  But when we seek our pleasure in Christ, then we will be fulfilled. As King David said, "Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart." [Psalm 37:4]


Selam

[HandmaidenofGod]

^ He looks like one of their very first members.

He looks like he pre-dates the C of E! More like one of the builders of Stonehenge! 

[HandmaidenofGod]

So if I eat for pleasure I'm sinning? If I listen to music for pleasure am I sinning? If I drink wine for pleasure am I sinning?

Rather than get the convoluded advice of an internet forum, I think this is a discussion best left between you and your Spiritual Father.

Sorry handmaiden, that reply was meant for Get_Behind_Me_Satan. I wasn't actually being serious... I apologize for having such a negative/confrontational tone.

No need to apologize. It's because of some of the comments in this discussion I suggested you reserve these kinds of questions for your SF.

[Get_Behind_Me_Satan]

I believe Ecclesiastes 11:9 summarizes it nicely: "Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."

There is no sin and no evil in attending parties, even wild ones. There is no sin and no evil in imbibing alcohol and even getting dizzy or "tipsy" when you drink. There is, however, sin and evil in what you might do to your neighbor and to yourself as you attend parties and get drunk. So, you have to watch yourself.

A great Slavic answer!

But hear the words again:

Ecclesiastes 11:9 "Be happy, young man, while you are young, and let your heart give you joy in the days of your youth. Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see, but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."

Which does not mean that you will be necessarily condemned for these things. For EVERYTHING you do, there will be judgment. Judgment and condemnation are not the same thing.

Judgement can mean both condemnation or justification.

Note how he reminds the youth by saying: but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."

Its like he's reminding him that he will be judged.

He's saying, 'know that God shall judge thee, understand this'

Or like he's saying, 'Realize that you will be judged for this'.

He's telling those who were ignorant, those who, 'Follow the ways of your heart and whatever your eyes see'. For he says:but know that for all these things God will bring you to judgment."


He's trying to wake up those who did not realize what they were doing wrong.

He's saying that young men will do 'this' and 'that'

'but realize that you will be judged for it'

[88Devin12]

So are you suggesting that we will be condemned for attending a party, or that we will be condemned for drinking alcohol, even getting tipsy?

[Nebelpfade]

So are you suggesting that we will be condemned for attending a party, or that we will be condemned for drinking alcohol, even getting tipsy?

For everything it seems, breathing too.  Oxygen is 'wordly'.

[ozgeorge]

Guys, don't be too hard on GTBMS.
I don't think he can be reasoned with; but he can be shown Love.
Arguing with him is not going to help I think.

[katherineofdixie]

My experience, FWIW, is that if an action or a situation makes you uncomfortable or uneasy, because you think it might be wrong, it more than likely is wrong.

(And I'm pretty sure that the reason your friend said he would like to party with that particular entertainer was not simply because he thought she would be a fun date.)

Of course, I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who loathes parties and large gatherings. Much rather the porch with friends, I say!

[Asteriktos]

"Eat and drink and be merry tonight" - Tob. 7:10

Good advice!

[LizaSymonenko]

Friends are a blessing, unless they lead you to temptation and sin.
Wine is permitted, as long as you don't get drunk and lose your senses.
Music can be refreshing and calming, as long as it's not filled with crude comments and temptations.

All things in moderation.   

There's a good and a bad side to everything.  Take the good, avoid the bad.

Always remember....the goal of this life, is the next.
Keep your eyes on Christ.

Example of someone who was to preoccupied with the current life and enjoyments, and forgot about his soul -

Luke 12:

 19  And I'll say to myself, "You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry." '

 20 "But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?

[GammaRay]

I thought that our bodies are temples of God and that we should live according to our Lord and the Saints. None of them was an alcoholic or a drunk and, if someone was, it's not what they are being venerated for.
Getting drunk is like defiling Christ's temple and doing something for which you were not appointed.

As for how one who is drunk is acting, I am not sure. Some, as stated before, may become cruel. Some may become sensitive. I've been drunk a couple of times; once I was preaching (seriously), the other I was feeling awfully weak and the other I was acting like a fool.

[88Devin12]

I'm just curious, and I'm not sure if I've asked this before... What is the limit between buzzed/tipsy and drunkenness?

We once had a party starting at about 9:30 or 10:00, and from then till about 12:00 or 12:30, I had about the equivalent to 1-1/2 bottles (bottles, not cups) of wine. I think when I took an online BAC test, it said I was probably at about .14... Yet, I felt fine, even at my worst, I was walking in straight lines, talking straight, and I was conscious and was able to control my actions.

Granted, I probably won't have that much again (and I don't agree with getting drunk since it is a sin).

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

I've been drunk a couple of times; once I was preaching (seriously)

    Now come on, don't leave us hanging. Please do tell us more about this story.


Selam

[Asteriktos]

I wish I could always be as open and talkative as I am with a few drinks in me.

[Heorhij]

I'm just curious, and I'm not sure if I've asked this before... What is the limit between buzzed/tipsy and drunkenness?

We once had a party starting at about 9:30 or 10:00, and from then till about 12:00 or 12:30, I had about the equivalent to 1-1/2 bottles (bottles, not cups) of wine. I think when I took an online BAC test, it said I was probably at about .14... Yet, I felt fine, even at my worst, I was walking in straight lines, talking straight, and I was conscious and was able to control my actions.

Granted, I probably won't have that much again (and I don't agree with getting drunk since it is a sin).

To me, the difference becomes obvious the next day (unfortunately). If I had even a lot to drink (and for me, a tall and heavy man of 52, "a lot" is really a lot, like half a gallon of wine or a pint or so of hard liquor), but the next day I do not have any memory lapses and recall all the events of the previous evening as pleasurable - I conclude that I was NOT drunk. My wife is my best reference in that. On the other hand, if I wake up in the morning and cannot recall, just what in the world I was doing or saying or writing (including writing to this forum, which, most regrettably, happened a couple of times...), or if I do recall that I was arguing with someone in a loud and angry voice, or did something clumsy and stupid - then I conclude that I WAS drunk.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

^ He looks like one of their very first members.

He looks like he pre-dates the C of E! More like one of the builders of Stonehenge! 

Hundreds of years before the dawn of history!

[Pravoslavbob]

^

...Stonehenge!... 

...Where the banshees live, and they do live well!

[ytterbiumanalyst]

^

...Stonehenge!... 

...Where the banshees live, and they do live well!

Careful--we might start a virtual party!

[Liz]

Yes. Using the word "party" as verb is not only Unchristian, its bad English.
Attending a party is fine.

 

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

^

...Stonehenge!... 

...Where the banshees live, and they do live well!

Careful--we might start a virtual party!

18" X 24"


Selam

[katherineofdixie]

Generally speaking, it's been my observation that folks often think they become smarter, funnier, more charming etc. when they drink - but they really aren't.

The only thing more boring than drunks are people on drugs.

YMMV, of course.

[Heorhij]

Generally speaking, it's been my observation that folks often think they become smarter, funnier, more charming etc. when they drink - but they really aren't.

The only thing more boring than drunks are people on drugs.

YMMV, of course.

Hard to disagree.

My wife says that she very easily catches the moment when I am not just "one who had a bit to drink," but drunk: it's when I become slow and boring. Amazing thing, *I* do not catch this moment, to me it still seems that I am feeling great, talk about interesting things, etc.

[Papist]

Generally speaking, it's been my observation that folks often think they become smarter, funnier, more charming etc. when they drink - but they really aren't.

The only thing more boring than drunks are people on drugs.

YMMV, of course.

When I am buzzed I pontificate more than usual and my friends have told me that they think that its quite funny. They rather enjoy it.

[Liz]

Generally speaking, it's been my observation that folks often think they become smarter, funnier, more charming etc. when they drink - but they really aren't.

The only thing more boring than drunks are people on drugs.

YMMV, of course.

Not sure I agree. Drunks are virtually always boring, of course. But I've yet to meet anyone whose behaviour changed for the worse after a moderate amount of alcohol.

[Rosehip]

In Eastern Europe I often noticed how vodka seemed to loosen men's tongues in the public realm-ordinarily quite reserved, you knew a man was drunk if he started suddenly hitting on you on the metro! Or if at night, you walked past an open window and heard loud, somewhat unsynchronized but enthusiastic singing of old folk songs accompanied with giggles and laughter, you knew they were quite tipsy. And you didn't have to be drunk for it to bring a smile to your face.

However, in the part of the world in which I grew up, drinking and partying amongst a certain segment of society meant a lot of sexual immorality and out-of-wedlock pregnancies. For this reason, I think it best to be careful about indiscriminate alcohol consumption. I saw the sad results.

[katherineofdixie]

My wife says that she very easily catches the moment when I am not just "one who had a bit to drink," but drunk: it's when I become slow and boring. Amazing thing, *I* do not catch this moment, to me it still seems that I am feeling great, talk about interesting things, etc.

Yes, us wives know this moment well! 

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