Author Topic: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy  (Read 13309 times)

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Offline samkim

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Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« on: December 04, 2009, 03:38:18 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It starts at around 2:00. What is the deal with this? Not only does His Beautitude give to RC clergy, but to a protestant woman (she runs some kind of ecumenism group).

I honestly wouldn't mind the RC clergy, I know there's a bit of unofficial inter-communion in the middle east, but it's the crazy ecumenist charismatic lady that bugs me. Actually, she may be Catholic. She's still crazy though. She thinks she receives visions and prophecies.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 03:53:12 PM by samkim »
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Papist

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2009, 03:47:18 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It starts at around 2:00. What is the deal with this? Not only does His Beautitude give to RC clergy, but to a protestant woman (she runs some kind of ecumenism group).

I honestly wouldn't mind the RC clergy, I know there's a bit of unofficial inter-communion in the middle east, but it's the crazy ecumenist charismatic lady that bugs me.
I thought you would refer to an Eastern Orthodox Patriach as "His Holiness".
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline samkim

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2009, 03:47:48 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It starts at around 2:00. What is the deal with this? Not only does His Beautitude give to RC clergy, but to a protestant woman (she runs some kind of ecumenism group).

I honestly wouldn't mind the RC clergy, I know there's a bit of unofficial inter-communion in the middle east, but it's the crazy ecumenist charismatic lady that bugs me.
I thought you would refer to an Eastern Orthodox Patriach as "His Holiness".

Excuse me, if that is the case.
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Papist

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2009, 03:48:53 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It starts at around 2:00. What is the deal with this? Not only does His Beautitude give to RC clergy, but to a protestant woman (she runs some kind of ecumenism group).

I honestly wouldn't mind the RC clergy, I know there's a bit of unofficial inter-communion in the middle east, but it's the crazy ecumenist charismatic lady that bugs me.
I thought you would refer to an Eastern Orthodox Patriach as "His Holiness".

Excuse me, if that is the case.
Oh, no, I was just curious. If I am wrong, I am totally sorry. Back to our regularlly scheduled topic...  :D
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 03:49:20 PM by Papist »
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2009, 03:49:41 PM »
The various "Old Calendarisms" are going to have a heyday with this.

As far as my own judgments, I am in no place to question the judgment of the Orthodox Patriarch of All of Africa as a catechumen.  I am glad that I do not have so much responsibility.  It does REALLY bother me, though.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 03:53:43 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline samkim

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 03:50:46 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It starts at around 2:00. What is the deal with this? Not only does His Beautitude give to RC clergy, but to a protestant woman (she runs some kind of ecumenism group).

I honestly wouldn't mind the RC clergy, I know there's a bit of unofficial inter-communion in the middle east, but it's the crazy ecumenist charismatic lady that bugs me.
I thought you would refer to an Eastern Orthodox Patriach as "His Holiness".

Excuse me, if that is the case.
Oh, no, I was just curious. If I am wrong, I am totally sorry. Back to our regularlly scheduled topic...  :D


I think you're right actually.
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline GiC

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 03:52:12 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It starts at around 2:00. What is the deal with this? Not only does His Beautitude give to RC clergy, but to a protestant woman (she runs some kind of ecumenism group).

I honestly wouldn't mind the RC clergy, I know there's a bit of unofficial inter-communion in the middle east, but it's the crazy ecumenist charismatic lady that bugs me.
I thought you would refer to an Eastern Orthodox Patriach as "His Holiness".

'His Beautitude' is the proper honorific title for Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem.

Offline samkim

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 03:52:46 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It starts at around 2:00. What is the deal with this? Not only does His Beautitude give to RC clergy, but to a protestant woman (she runs some kind of ecumenism group).

I honestly wouldn't mind the RC clergy, I know there's a bit of unofficial inter-communion in the middle east, but it's the crazy ecumenist charismatic lady that bugs me.
I thought you would refer to an Eastern Orthodox Patriach as "His Holiness".

'His Beautitude' is the proper honorific title for Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem.
Ok... time to change it again...
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Papist

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 03:54:14 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It starts at around 2:00. What is the deal with this? Not only does His Beautitude give to RC clergy, but to a protestant woman (she runs some kind of ecumenism group).

I honestly wouldn't mind the RC clergy, I know there's a bit of unofficial inter-communion in the middle east, but it's the crazy ecumenist charismatic lady that bugs me.
I thought you would refer to an Eastern Orthodox Patriach as "His Holiness".

'His Beautitude' is the proper honorific title for Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem.
Thank you.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline stashko

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2009, 04:03:27 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It starts at around 2:00. What is the deal with this? Not only does His Beautitude give to RC clergy, but to a protestant woman (she runs some kind of ecumenism group).

I honestly wouldn't mind the RC clergy, I know there's a bit of unofficial inter-communion in the middle east, but it's the crazy ecumenist charismatic lady that bugs me. Actually, she may be Catholic. She's still crazy though. She thinks she receives visions and prophecies.


It Nothing New with the catholics they love chasing after visions,apparitions, shades ,spectres, spooks,with them its out with the faith once delivered unto salvation.. But in with the new revelations[ Gospel ]from talking apparitions....

I'm against this open communion with heretics if its true ,Why are the faithful orthodox premitting this and not speaking out against it .......
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

Offline Salpy

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2009, 04:04:17 PM »
I'm pretty sure the blond woman approaching His Beatitude at about 1:57 in the video is Vassula Ryden.  If you click the tag below, you'll get more threads about her.  It's definitely her group that took the video and they obviously were there.

Vassula and her followers are always trying to get her "messages" endorsed by church leaders.  In one of the other threads, I talk about how this has caused some problems in my own church.  One thing she does is she'll get her picture, or a video of herself, taken with a bishop or patriarch and her followers will use that to say this church leader has read her messages and has endorsed them.  I think that is what happened here.  It was a crowded church and there were hundreds of people taking Communion.  His Beatitude probably had no idea who she was when he communed her.  It's not like he can interview every person who comes up to him on a feast day to see if they are heretics.

Offline samkim

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2009, 04:05:14 PM »
I'm pretty sure the blond woman approaching His Beatitude at about 1:57 in the video is Vassula Ryden.  If you click the tag below, you'll get more threads about her.  It's definitely her group that took the video and they obviously were there.

Vassula and her followers are always trying to get her "messages" endorsed by church leaders.  In one of the other threads, I talk about how this has caused some problems in my own church.  One thing she does is she'll get her picture, or a video of herself, taken with a bishop or patriarch and her followers will use that to say this church leader has read her messages and has endorsed them.  I think that is what happened here.  It was a crowded church and there were hundreds of people taking Communion.  His Beatitude probably had no idea who she was when he communed her.  It's not like he can interview every person who comes up to him on a feast day to see if they are heretics.

That's her.
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline samkim

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2009, 04:07:31 PM »
I'm pretty sure the blond woman approaching His Beatitude at about 1:57 in the video is Vassula Ryden.  If you click the tag below, you'll get more threads about her.  It's definitely her group that took the video and they obviously were there.

Vassula and her followers are always trying to get her "messages" endorsed by church leaders.  In one of the other threads, I talk about how this has caused some problems in my own church.  One thing she does is she'll get her picture, or a video of herself, taken with a bishop or patriarch and her followers will use that to say this church leader has read her messages and has endorsed them.  I think that is what happened here.  It was a crowded church and there were hundreds of people taking Communion.  His Beatitude probably had no idea who she was when he communed her.  It's not like he can interview every person who comes up to him on a feast day to see if they are heretics.

But also, there were clearly two RC clergymen receiving as well. I'm not 100% against communing RCs, but the nonchalantness about the whole thing seemed a bit disturbing.
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Schultz

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2009, 04:09:58 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It starts at around 2:00. What is the deal with this? Not only does His Beautitude give to RC clergy, but to a protestant woman (she runs some kind of ecumenism group).

I honestly wouldn't mind the RC clergy, I know there's a bit of unofficial inter-communion in the middle east, but it's the crazy ecumenist charismatic lady that bugs me. Actually, she may be Catholic. She's still crazy though. She thinks she receives visions and prophecies.


It Nothing New with the catholics they love chasing after visions,apparitions, shades ,spectres, spooks,with them its out with the faith once delivered unto salvation.. But in with the new revelations[ Gospel ]from talking apparitions....


The blonde woman in question, Vassula Ryden, is Greek Orthodox.

NEXT!
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 04:10:33 PM by Schultz »
"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen

Offline samkim

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2009, 04:10:46 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGq0FF_RWZw

It starts at around 2:00. What is the deal with this? Not only does His Beautitude give to RC clergy, but to a protestant woman (she runs some kind of ecumenism group).

I honestly wouldn't mind the RC clergy, I know there's a bit of unofficial inter-communion in the middle east, but it's the crazy ecumenist charismatic lady that bugs me. Actually, she may be Catholic. She's still crazy though. She thinks she receives visions and prophecies.


It Nothing New with the catholics they love chasing after visions,apparitions, shades ,spectres, spooks,with them its out with the faith once delivered unto salvation.. But in with the new revelations[ Gospel ]from talking apparitions....


The blonde woman in question, Vassula Ryden, is Greek Orthodox.

NEXT!

Ok well, she's still really weird.
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Schultz

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2009, 04:14:08 PM »
Yes, she is.

I'm just commenting on stashko's usual knee-jerk reaction.  The Orthodox Church has its share of loonies, too.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2009, 04:16:53 PM »
It's not like he can interview every person who comes up to him on a feast day to see if they are heretics.

After a quick online search, the Wikipedia article on her says that she was baptized Eastern Orthodox, so at least there's that.  If anyone partakes in an unworthy manner, they eat and drink judgment upon themselves.  If she approaches to receive while knowingly teaching heresies, then she is the one who is ultimately responsible, not His Beatitude.

Anyway, perhaps these are "Western Rite Orthodox" in Alexandria? ::)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 04:18:39 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline Salpy

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2009, 04:18:16 PM »
The blonde woman in question, Vassula Ryden, is Greek Orthodox.

NEXT!

She's been excommunicated from the Greek Orthodox Church.

Offline Schultz

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2009, 04:18:52 PM »
The blonde woman in question, Vassula Ryden, is Greek Orthodox.

NEXT!

She's been excommunicated from the Greek Orthodox Church.

True, but she's not an excommunicant of the Roman Catholic Church.  That's my point. :)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 04:19:32 PM by Schultz »
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2009, 04:19:26 PM »
She's been excommunicated from the Greek Orthodox Church.

How do you know so much about this lady?

Offline Schultz

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2009, 04:20:20 PM »
She's a popular loon in some circles.  She's fascinating in the way Rev. Moon is fascinating to some people.  She's a crackpot, but she's a persistent one.

We had a thread on here a while ago about her http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5925.0.html

click on the tag at the bottom for some more.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 04:21:20 PM by Schultz »
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2009, 04:22:23 PM »
Who excommunicated her?
She's just a simple laywoman, so I doubt there was any formal excommunication.
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Offline Salpy

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2009, 04:23:28 PM »
She's been excommunicated from the Greek Orthodox Church.

How do you know so much about this lady?

Look at the other threads.  She has a very small, but fanatical and bothersome following among the Armenians.  That's why I've had to get to know about her.  I run my church's bookstore, and I sometimes get women (they're always women) asking for her books and then trying to get me to supply them when I don't have them.

Regarding her excommunication from the Greek Church, see reply 4 in the thread below:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9511.msg128071.html#msg128071
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 05:43:28 PM by Salpy »

Offline samkim

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2009, 04:24:07 PM »
She's a popular loon in some circles.  She's fascinating in the way Rev. Moon is fascinating to some people.  She's a crackpot, but she's a persistent one.

We had a thread on here a while ago about her http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5925.0.html

click on the tag at the bottom for some more.

LOL... she got a Nihil Obstat from an RC bishop...
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Schultz

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2009, 04:27:32 PM »
All that means is that in that particular publication, there was nothing contrary to the Catholic faith.

The bishop in question even admitted later on that it was probably a mistake for him to do so. 

This woman is a great con artist.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 04:28:27 PM by Schultz »
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Offline samkim

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2009, 04:29:09 PM »
All that means is that in that particular publication, there was nothing contrary to the Catholic faith.

The bishop in question even admitted later on that it was probably a mistake for him to do so. 

This woman is a great con artist.

Right, but it's all just very weird...
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline samkim

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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2009, 04:39:22 PM »
http://www.infovassula.ch/tligfaq.htm#intercommunion says Regarding the intercommunion, both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have a valid Sacrament but advise against intercommunion until the doctrinal differences are resolved (a process well under way).

Uhhh...then why am I converting?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 04:39:38 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline LBK

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2009, 04:39:34 PM »
Regarding the man in a clerical collar and black suit receiving communion, it is quite possible that he is indeed Orthodox. It is quite common for African Orthodox clergy, particularly of the Greek tradition, to wear western garb.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline samkim

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2009, 04:43:47 PM »
Regarding the man in a clerical collar and black suit receiving communion, it is quite possible that he is indeed Orthodox. It is quite common for African Orthodox clergy, particularly of the Greek tradition, to wear western garb.

There's clearly a RC monk receiving also.
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2009, 05:17:13 PM »
So, another thread of speculation about a Patriarch of an ancient see giving communion to heterodox.  *Yawn*  Call me when you find out that the people are actually not Orthodox, and then I'll be outraged.
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Offline Orual

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2009, 05:17:52 PM »
I really hope this was a misunderstanding of the Patriarch and not something he did on purpose.  I hope the people in western attire turn out to be Orthodox.  And I hope he is now wise to this Ryden lady, and that she will not commune again until she repents and the excommunication is lifted.

This is why I think it is necessary for every church to announce the communion guidelines prior to giving communion, that it is only for baptized Eastern Orthodox Christians who have prepared by fasting and recent confession.  And for goodness sake, stick to them.  Ask every single stranger who their bishop is.  If they're Roman Catholic, Byzantine Catholic, or non-Chalcedonian, tell them sorry and turn them away.  If it takes five hours to go through a cathedral, so be it.  If they lie or don't tell that they've been excommunicated, that's on their own heads.  But every Orthodox clergyman swore at his ordination to protect the Lord's Body.  That means doing your due diligence.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 05:19:32 PM by Orual »
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Offline samkim

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2009, 05:24:49 PM »
So, another thread of speculation about a Patriarch of an ancient see giving communion to heterodox.  *Yawn*  Call me when you find out that the people are actually not Orthodox, and then I'll be outraged.

http://www.infovassula.ch/tligfaq.htm#intercommunion
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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2009, 05:28:49 PM »
So, another thread of speculation about a Patriarch of an ancient see giving communion to heterodox.  *Yawn*  Call me when you find out that the people are actually not Orthodox, and then I'll be outraged.

http://www.infovassula.ch/tligfaq.htm#intercommunion

Really, that's your evidence?  I'm no professor, but even I'd give that a big 'ol F.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 05:29:04 PM by Fr. George »
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Offline GiC

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2009, 05:32:40 PM »
I really hope this was a misunderstanding of the Patriarch and not something he did on purpose.  I hope the people in western attire turn out to be Orthodox.  And I hope he is now wise to this Ryden lady, and that she will not commune again until she repents and the excommunication is lifted.

This is why I think it is necessary for every church to announce the communion guidelines prior to giving communion, that it is only for baptized Eastern Orthodox Christians who have prepared by fasting and recent confession.  And for goodness sake, stick to them.  Ask every single stranger who their bishop is.  If they're Roman Catholic, Byzantine Catholic, or non-Chalcedonian, tell them sorry and turn them away.  If it takes five hours to go through a cathedral, so be it.  If they lie or don't tell that they've been excommunicated, that's on their own heads.  But every Orthodox clergyman swore at his ordination to protect the Lord's Body.  That means doing your due diligence.

In the mean time, back in the real world, there's a good chance that half the faithful there don't know who their bishop is. And you expect the patriarch to know the name of every Orthodox Bishop? I would quite enjoy watching his reaction if you actually gave the Patriarch this lecture in person.

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2009, 05:40:39 PM »
I really hope this was a misunderstanding of the Patriarch and not something he did on purpose.  I hope the people in western attire turn out to be Orthodox.  And I hope he is now wise to this Ryden lady, and that she will not commune again until she repents and the excommunication is lifted.

This is why I think it is necessary for every church to announce the communion guidelines prior to giving communion, that it is only for baptized Eastern Orthodox Christians who have prepared by fasting and recent confession.  And for goodness sake, stick to them.  Ask every single stranger who their bishop is.  If they're Roman Catholic, Byzantine Catholic, or non-Chalcedonian, tell them sorry and turn them away.  If it takes five hours to go through a cathedral, so be it.  If they lie or don't tell that they've been excommunicated, that's on their own heads.  But every Orthodox clergyman swore at his ordination to protect the Lord's Body.  That means doing your due diligence.

In the mean time, back in the real world, there's a good chance that half the faithful there don't know who their bishop is. And you expect the patriarch to know the name of every Orthodox Bishop? I would quite enjoy watching his reaction if you actually gave the Patriarch this lecture in person.

Hey, I'd like to see his reaction, too.  Please excuse me.  I have to go buy some Greek language software and a plane ticket to Egypt.  Probably print off directions to the Patriarchate from Google Maps, while I'm at it.
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Offline samkim

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2009, 05:41:47 PM »
So, another thread of speculation about a Patriarch of an ancient see giving communion to heterodox.  *Yawn*  Call me when you find out that the people are actually not Orthodox, and then I'll be outraged.

http://www.infovassula.ch/tligfaq.htm#intercommunion

Really, that's your evidence?  I'm no professor, but even I'd give that a big 'ol F.

Did you watch the video? Did you see the comments? The video's poster said: "Yes this was a group of orthodox and catholic lay and clergy that attended the easter liturgy. And they all received communion from the hands of the patriarch."
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Salpy

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2009, 05:49:22 PM »
I have no doubt he communed Catholics on that occasion.  Vassula's groups are usually a mix of Catholics and Orthodox, both Eastern and Oriental  The question is whether the Patriarch knew some of the people he communed were Catholic.  It could be he didn't know.  He probably didn't.

One of the problems with Vassula and her followers is that they actively encourage people to commune at Churches they are not in communion with.  It's part of Vassula's "unity" message.  In fact, I think that is how Vassula got excommunicated from the Greek Church.  They didn't excommunicate her.  She excommunicated herself by repeatedly communing in Roman Catholic churches. 

Offline witega

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2009, 05:57:36 PM »
Okay, finally got a chance to watch the video. I only saw one person (the black man wearing a roman collar at approximately 2:09) who was visually 'questionable'. The excommunicated Vassula may have been there with a number of non-Orthodox followers, but since none of them were wearing signs saying "Excommunicated", "Roman Catholic", "Protestant", I don't see that the Patriarch can be blamed if some were misrepresenting themselves as they approached the chalice.

As for the one exception, has he been identified? As noted, the Patriarchate of Alexandria has black clergy throughout the continent, and as someone else noted, its not that uncommon for them to wear traditionally 'Western' garb (like the collar) when not actually serving.

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2009, 05:58:00 PM »
To Reply Nos. 1 & 3

I don't know why the difference exists, but in Greek practice, all the primates (heads) of the Holy Orthodox Churches, not-with-standing their respective offices, patriarch, archbishop, metropolitan, they are referred to as "His Beatitude," ("Markariatatos"); in Russian style, the patriarchs are referred to as "His Holiness."  I have an excellent book published by the OCA's predecessor, the Metropolia, in the 1950's, wherein they are referred to as "His Beatitude."  I have no idea why this difference exists.
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Offline samkim

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2009, 06:01:12 PM »
Just to be clear, I do not blame the Patriarch.
주 예수 그리스도 하느님의 아들이시여 저 이 죄인을 불쌍히 여기소서.

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2009, 06:11:01 PM »
Regarding the clergy who are dressed in Western garb, which may not be uncommon in Alexandria, it is hard to believe a priest or deacon would not be celebrating, somewhere, on Great Thursday, even if he stood in the Sanctuary wearing a robe.
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2009, 06:28:43 PM »
Regarding the clergy who are dressed in Western garb, which may not be uncommon in Alexandria, it is hard to believe a priest or deacon would not be celebrating, somewhere, on Great Thursday, even if he stood in the Sanctuary wearing a robe.

I don't know about that - I know plenty of clergy who would likely "sit out" and experience the service as a visitor.  Especially if they were on a pilgrimage.  Plus, depending on the limitations of the Church, the Patriarch may have set limits to the concelebration.
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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2009, 06:53:46 PM »
I'm just commenting on stashko's usual knee-jerk reaction.  The Orthodox Church has its share of loonies, too.

I know.  Half of them are on this board, including me! :D
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Re: Patriarch of Alexandria gives the sacrament to Catholic clergy
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2009, 06:57:30 PM »
Do they make announcements indicating that only Canonical Orthodox Christians in good standing can approach the Holy Chalice?  I realize that people of various languages were in attendance; another option is to hand out bulletins with the above message to that effect.

Such a bulletin will dissuade many from approaching the Chalice; however, the bulletin will not prevent those with an agenda from partaking of Holy Communion.