Author Topic: UOC to start dialogue with KP  (Read 2148 times)

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Offline mike

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UOC to start dialogue with KP
« on: September 10, 2009, 03:20:01 PM »
Quote
The Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) is planning to start a dialogue with the UOC of Kiev Patriarchate in order to resume unity in Ukrainian orthodoxy, information from the official website of the UOC.

The decision was taken at a meeting of the Holy Synod at the Pochayiv Lavra monastery on September 9, which was chaired by Metropolitan of Kyiv and all Ukraine Volodymyr (Sabodan).  The UOC press service said that a working group had been created and tasked to prepare for holding a dialogue with representatives of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Kyiv Patriarchate, which is considered among Orthodox believers as non-canonical.
source


Following moths the ecclesiological situation in Ukraine will became messier that it is now. EP is starting dialogue with UAOC, MP with PK. Interesting times are coming.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 03:20:22 PM by mike »
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: UOC to start dialogue with KP
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2009, 03:30:25 PM »

(..head spinning...)  ???

Let me try to get this straight.

From a few weeks ago, the Ecumenical Patriarchate has agreed to meet with the UOC (M. Volodymyr), at the UOC's request.

Now the same UOC is starting talks with the UOC (Kyiv Patriarchate - M. Filaret).  Right?

The EP did once mention that they would not intrude upon Ukrainian matters, until Ukraine had sorted out all their personal differences, and when there was 'one' Ukrainian Orthodox Church then discussions would commence.

So...maybe this is a step towards the creation of the long awaited "one" Ukrainian Orthodox Church?

You know....with God ALL things are possible.  Communism fell in Ukraine without a single drop of blood being shed.
Let's hope that with God's help, all this jurisdictional bickering and pride can get resolved amicably and we can move forward.

Lord, PLEASE have mercy on Ukraine, Ukrainians and all Orthodox faithful!



Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline mike

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Re: UOC to start dialogue with KP
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2009, 03:34:20 PM »

(..head spinning...)  ???

Let me try to get this straight.

From a few weeks ago, the Ecumenical Patriarchate has agreed to meet with the UOC (M. Volodymyr), at the UOC's request.

What? Do I not know about something?

I've only heard that Patriarchate of Constantinople is going to meet with the representants of Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church which is separate both from Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Moscow Patriarchate and Ukrainian Orthodox Church - Kiev Patriarchate.

The latter two are starting to talk to each other now.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: UOC to start dialogue with KP
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2009, 03:44:50 PM »

 ;)

That's why I said I was confused.

I can't keep any of it straight.

Someone just let me know when it's all resolved.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline cossack 316

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Re: UOC to start dialogue with KP
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2009, 03:45:31 PM »
So hypothetically, best case scernario, the UOC-Mp and UOC KP reconcile their differences and unite as one Ukrainian Church not under Moscow, god willing. Does that mean the UOCUSA would leave the EP and ask to unite with the Ukrainian church?

Господи, помилуй!

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: UOC to start dialogue with KP
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2009, 03:52:59 PM »

Cossack..

...I would take it all one step at a time.

Don't you worry to much about the UOCofUSA.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: UOC to start dialogue with KP
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2009, 04:39:43 PM »
Quote
The Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) is planning to start a dialogue with the UOC of Kiev Patriarchate in order to resume unity in Ukrainian orthodoxy, information from the official website of the UOC.

The decision was taken at a meeting of the Holy Synod at the Pochayiv Lavra monastery on September 9, which was chaired by Metropolitan of Kyiv and all Ukraine Volodymyr (Sabodan).  The UOC press service said that a working group had been created and tasked to prepare for holding a dialogue with representatives of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Kyiv Patriarchate, which is considered among Orthodox believers as non-canonical.
source


Following moths the ecclesiological situation in Ukraine will became messier that it is now. EP is starting dialogue with UAOC, MP with PK. Interesting times are coming.

Like I said, so much for Chambesy.

Hopefully Ukraine can get autocephaly and kill Chambesy at the same time.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: UOC to start dialogue with KP
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2009, 06:22:45 PM »

Cossack..

...I would take it all one step at a time.

Don't you worry to much about the UOCofUSA.



Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way:

Quote
In the case of the Metropolia, the responses and reactions of the other
Orthodox churches with populations or jurisdictions in America, to include the other
four ancient patriarchates, all point toward concern over the “canonicity” of the
autocephaly but also displayed a marked lack of consensus over what “canonical”
meant. A few months after autocephaly was granted, Ecumenical Patriarch
Athenagoras appointed Archbishop Iakovos of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of
North and South America as Patriarchal Exarch Plenipotentiary with “the right to
preside over consultations and meetings of the Orthodox Canonical Bishops in
America…provided that the existing Canonical ties of each hierarch with his own
mother Church
are fully and unilaterally preserved and further continued until the
time the entire question of the Orthodox Churches in the diaspora is undoubtedly and
finally regulated…by the [forthcoming] Holy and Great Synod
… .”271 This decision
can be interpreted as an attempt by the Ecumenical Patriarchate to assert a measure of
control over the North American situation and to prevent further organizational
fragmentation through autocephaly, while guaranteeing protection of the
patriarchate’s interests on North American soil against Russian encroachment.
AUTOCEPHALY AS A FUNCTION OF INSTITUTIONAL
STABILITY AND ORGANIZATIONAL CHANGE IN THE
EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH
Charles Wegener Sanderson, Doctor of Philosophy
pp. 142-3
http://www.lib.umd.edu/drum/bitstream/1903/2340/1/umi-umd-2195.pdf

Quote
The issue of whether the autocephaly itself occurred as a result of initiatives
from Moscow (the Patriarchate) versus the United States (the Metropolia) is open to
debate.267 Still, viewed in this context, the rapprochement between the Russian
church and the Metropolia in the late 1960s makes more sense. The Metropolia had a
reason to seek autocephaly and the Moscow Patriarchate, in line with adjusted Soviet
foreign policy priorities, had a variety of incentives to grant it. In 1966 and again in
1967, the Metropolia approached the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Constantinople to
seek a grant of autocephaly, having been rebuffed by the Moscow Patriarchate in
previous years. The Ecumenical Patriarch, however, also rebuffed the Metropolia,
reminding them that it was the responsibility of the Russian church to resolve the
problem
[/u] (a position from which the Ecumenical Patriarchate would reverse itself,
evidently for political reasons, immediately after the autocephaly was granted). The
official reason was that the Ecumenical Patriarchate then viewed the situation of the
Russian church as having returned to a semblance of normalcy following the
difficulties of the Stalinist period. Unofficially, however, it appears that the Russian
church exerted pressure against the Ecumenical Patriarchate possibly via the Russian
Exarchate in Paris, evidence that the rivalry between these two dominant
patriarchates, in the context of larger geopolitical rivalries, continued to play itself
against the background of détente. It also is possible that Constantinople did not
expect anything substantive to come out of negotiations between the Metropolia and
the Russian Orthodox Church. The shock expressed by the Ecumenical Patriarchate,
made clear in its response to the Moscow Patriarchate’s tomos granting autocephaly,
was viewed by the American architects of the autocephaly as disingenuous in light of
the fact that Constantinople had been aware of the status of the negotiations with
Moscow throughout. To emphasize, the autocephaly of the Metropolia must be
viewed in the broader context of the rivalry between the two patriarchates.268
268 See

pp. 142-3.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 06:23:44 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: UOC to start dialogue with KP
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2009, 06:29:06 PM »
I must agree (for once) with Cossack -- Lord have mercy!

Nevertheless, let Ukraine worry about itself, I'm more concerned with jurisdictional unity in the U.S.

May the Lord bless us and preserve us, and guide us in the establishment of a Canonical American Orthodox Patriarch!
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline mike

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Re: UOC to start dialogue with KP
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2009, 02:29:41 AM »
It looks like UOC will start to talk to UAOC also: http://risu.org.ua/ukr/news/article;31515/
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