Author Topic: Female Altar Servers??  (Read 50562 times)

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Online Asteriktos

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #405 on: February 22, 2017, 11:50:50 PM »
The Wayback Machine to the rescue :)

https://web.archive.org/web/20160311134142/http://www.anastasis.org.uk/woman_deacon.htm

EDIT--but if you wanted to see the text on oc.net or the conversation, it's in this thread
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 11:53:11 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #406 on: February 23, 2017, 12:13:43 AM »
The Wayback Machine to the rescue :)

https://web.archive.org/web/20160311134142/http://www.anastasis.org.uk/woman_deacon.htm

EDIT--but if you wanted to see the text on oc.net or the conversation, it's in this thread
Thanks :)
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Offline Diego

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #407 on: February 23, 2017, 01:17:34 AM »
I have just spent a VERY long time reading all ten pages of this thread. I have found it rather interesting. I know little about Orthodox practices, but Roman, Anglican, and Lutheran ones are my bread and butter.

As many of you know, the official Roman position (and most Anglo-Catholics would agree) is that ordaining a female to the priesthood is as valid as ordaining a cat. You can go through the form. You can dress her in the vestments, etc. Nevertheless, she remains as much a layperson AFTER the ceremony as she was BEFORE it.

Scandinavian Lutherans, and some other Lutherans, who have maintained the historic Episcopate, and have not apostatised, hold the same view. Those Lutherans who hold a Lower Church view of clergy and other matters will generally NOT speak in terms of a sacramental Priesthood. Nevertheless, these Lutherans reject ordination of women simply because it violates the good order of the the Church as Saint Paul indicates it should be.

What does this say in terms of female servers at the Altar? To put it in simple terms: NO. Women do serve on the Altar Guild in SOME parishes. But NEVER are they allowed past the Altar Rail during Liturgical Functions.

WHY can't women be Presbyters? Speaking from a High Church point of view, I can simply respond that Christ chose 12 MEN to be his Apostles. He violated the norms of his culture in all KINDS of ways. Saying that he did not choose women because of cultural dictates is ridiculous. I mean, really! He was born to lowly peasants in what was more or less a barn, for one. Hardly an auspicious way for God the Son to begin life. As an adult, his best friends were fishermen, a tax collector, and, well, forgive me for being a tad bold, a hooker. This is NOT a man who cared what important people thought. And he died in the most ignominious way possible, a traitor's death, a vile criminal's death. Only horrible people died that way!

Is anyone going to tell me that if the Son of God had wanted to call women to the Apostolate, he would have let something so minor as his CULTURE stop him? PULEEEEESE!!!!!!!

As for those of you arguing that allowing girls to serve at the Altar would be allowing them a Priestlike function, I find that a valid argument. But, fundamentally, we have to go back to the Scripture, and to the Fathers. Remember that the first Christians would ALL have been adults, and thus the servers would have been adult as well. Saint Paul is clear that men shall lead in the Church. And the constant practice of Holy Mother Church has ALWAYS been to maintain an all-male situation at the Altar of God. I think it is ultimately that simple. And if we EVER, as good Christian men and women, hope to unify the torn disunited Church, we MUST go back to the Scriptures and the Fathers.

As much as I believe in the Confessions of the Book of Concord, I think the last sentence of the last paragraph holds true even over that.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #408 on: February 23, 2017, 01:27:41 AM »
There's no female priesthood at all, at least not in the same sense of an actual presbyter, but there were female apostles, although not among the twelve.
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Offline Diego

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #409 on: February 23, 2017, 01:44:56 AM »
RAPHA, with respect, I don't think that statement can be sustained, in the sense of the term "Apostles". Perhaps in the generic sense of disciples, as we all are, but not Apostles.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #410 on: February 23, 2017, 01:56:12 AM »
St. Junia was an apostle mentioned in Scripture (the Greek text is ambiguous, but Orthodoxy believes it to point it that way), and some of the Seventy (who are commemorated as apostles in Orthodox liturgics) were women. There are also women who received the title "Equal to the Apostles".
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

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Offline Diego

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #411 on: February 23, 2017, 02:12:01 AM »
Equal in what sense, I wonder? I would have to inquire further.

Offline LBK

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #412 on: February 23, 2017, 02:16:37 AM »
RAPHA, with respect, I don't think that statement can be sustained, in the sense of the term "Apostles". Perhaps in the generic sense of disciples, as we all are, but not Apostles.

The Orthodox Church calls certain saints Equal-to-the-Apostles, in recognition of their efforts in evangelizing their peoples, nations, or for their missionary work. Female saints as well as male saints have earned this honor, such as Sts Nina of Georgia, Helen (along with her son Constantine the Great), and Olga of Kiev.

Then there is St Mary Magdalen, also an Equal-to-the-Apostles, and also known as the Apostle to the Apostles, as it was she who was, at the direction of Christ Himself,  the first to tell the disciples of His Resurrection.

Some hymns from St Mary's service:

First to see the divine Resurrection of the First Cause of blessings, who in His compassion made our nature divine, you were revealed as also the first herald of the Gospel, Mary Magdalen, as you cried to the Apostles, ‘Put away despair, regain good cheer, and come, look now on Christ who has risen again and grants the world His great mercy.’

You have found deification that makes divine, you enjoy the torrent of grace, receive the rewards for your toils from God, are numbered with the ranks of the Apostles, Magdalen, Disciple of the Word. By your prayers guard those who honor you with love.

The hymns in the services of other equals-to-the-apostles, including female saints, also feature similar language.

Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #413 on: February 23, 2017, 02:20:11 AM »
In the sense that they were sent out (the Greek meaning of "apostle") to enlighten particular peoples. This title was granted as recently as in the XX century (I'm thinking about St. Nicholas of Japan, who took Orthodoxy to the land of the rising sun).

Edit: What LBK said.  :P
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 02:20:43 AM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #414 on: February 25, 2017, 11:56:49 PM »
OK. However, I don't see how exactly this is relevant to the question of whether women can serve in the altar. The biggest "iconic" argument involves the fact that the priest (or bishop) celebrating the Liturgy acts in persona Christi, and since Christ was male, those who represent him have to be male.

Women do serve in the altar, but only in exceptional situations, such as in a women's monastery. In all other situations, it is not the norm, because there are male altar servers available in most other communities. Since there probably are many boys and men who are interested in serving in the altar, priests can just take the best of the males and not have to worry about the females. This is the biggest practical reason why there are no women altar servers in parish situations, not to mention the fact that, by the letter of the canons, all who serve in the altar must be clergy. Since women are not eligible to be ordained to any clerical rank, they are not called on to serve in the altar, whereas any man could potentially be ordained, barring any canonical impediments. This is why only men serve in the altar in parishes.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #415 on: February 28, 2017, 12:24:25 PM »
The biggest "iconic" argument involves the fact that the priest (or bishop) celebrating the Liturgy acts in persona Christi, and since Christ was male, those who represent him have to be male.

As far as I can tell, this is a pretty new argument that was produced only after the question of women priests was raised. It doesn't seem to have any basis as a traditional reason for a male-only priesthood. It has a problematic connotation that women cannot image Christ as well as men. It also begs the question- if the priest has to be male because Christ was male, why doesn't he also have to be a Palestinian Jew in his 30's?

I am not in favor of women's ordination, mainly because I don't see it as necessary, and I am uncomfortable with breaking a 2000 year old tradition without a good reason, but I have yet to see a serious theological argument against it.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #416 on: February 28, 2017, 04:40:47 PM »
I am not in favor of women's ordination, mainly because I don't see it as necessary, and I am uncomfortable with breaking a 2000 year old tradition without a good reason, but I have yet to see a serious theological argument against it.
Rather 3500 year old, if not more (I'm thinking about the Righteous Patriarch Aaron, then further back King Melchizedek).
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 04:42:16 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #417 on: March 11, 2017, 04:11:34 PM »
This thread is about female altar servers, not the female priesthood.  I have yet to see any solid theological reason behind females not being allowed to serve.

1. Altar serving is supposed to be a precursur, or the first step to the priesthood.... Yes, I know , not everyone who serves winds up in the Priesthood but thats the reason.

2. Could be the issue of blood.... As I understand it, as an Acolyte, even if you cut your finger slicing the bread for post communion you may not re-enter the altar area during Liturgy until it is healed.

3. Young Women have their menstural cycles and I believe cannot serve at least during this period of time.   I know of no other reason save Tradition
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 04:13:55 PM by JoeS2 »

Offline RichC

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #418 on: March 20, 2017, 11:28:31 PM »
My argument with allowing a female priesthood is not theological.  Its taking one thing meant for one purpose and trying to repurpose it.  Females have a calling for one thing and men for another.  I came from the Episcopal Church and saw the results of that.

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #419 on: March 21, 2017, 09:28:44 AM »
Females have a calling for one thing and men for another. 

What things would those be?
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #420 on: March 22, 2017, 01:11:42 AM »
Women become mothers or nuns.  Maybe cook for coffee hour.
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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #421 on: June 07, 2017, 05:50:24 PM »
How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #422 on: June 07, 2017, 05:59:12 PM »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #423 on: June 07, 2017, 06:01:08 PM »
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Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #424 on: June 07, 2017, 06:25:12 PM »
I have just spent a VERY long time reading all ten pages of this thread. I have found it rather interesting. I know little about Orthodox practices, but Roman, Anglican, and Lutheran ones are my bread and butter.

As for those of you arguing that allowing girls to serve at the Altar would be allowing them a Priestlike function, I find that a valid argument. But, fundamentally, we have to go back to the Scripture, and to the Fathers. Remember that the first Christians would ALL have been adults, and thus the servers would have been adult as well. Saint Paul is clear that men shall lead in the Church. And the constant practice of Holy Mother Church has ALWAYS been to maintain an all-male situation at the Altar of God. I think it is ultimately that simple. And if we EVER, as good Christian men and women, hope to unify the torn disunited Church, we MUST go back to the Scriptures and the Fathers.

If you have taken the time as you say to read all of the 10 pages in this discussion thread I also hope that you have taken note of all the pictures of Orthodox girl altar Servers and especially those serving in the ancient Patriarchate of Antioch and even with the Patriarch of Antioch himself in the Middle East.

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #425 on: June 08, 2017, 01:21:40 AM »
First you get female altar servers, then you get females giving the blessing like a priest!  No wonder people in artsy situations want to hang themselves.
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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #426 on: June 08, 2017, 01:37:04 AM »
WARNING: I have edited this post to change the content. [/disregard]
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 01:40:19 AM by Asteriktos »

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #427 on: June 08, 2017, 01:57:15 AM »
#nousregardons
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #428 on: June 08, 2017, 03:41:03 AM »
I have just spent a VERY long time reading all ten pages of this thread. I have found it rather interesting. I know little about Orthodox practices, but Roman, Anglican, and Lutheran ones are my bread and butter.

As many of you know, the official Roman position (and most Anglo-Catholics would agree) is that ordaining a female to the priesthood is as valid as ordaining a cat. You can go through the form. You can dress her in the vestments, etc. Nevertheless, she remains as much a layperson AFTER the ceremony as she was BEFORE it.

Scandinavian Lutherans, and some other Lutherans, who have maintained the historic Episcopate, and have not apostatised, hold the same view. Those Lutherans who hold a Lower Church view of clergy and other matters will generally NOT speak in terms of a sacramental Priesthood. Nevertheless, these Lutherans reject ordination of women simply because it violates the good order of the the Church as Saint Paul indicates it should be.

What does this say in terms of female servers at the Altar? To put it in simple terms: NO. Women do serve on the Altar Guild in SOME parishes. But NEVER are they allowed past the Altar Rail during Liturgical Functions.

WHY can't women be Presbyters? Speaking from a High Church point of view, I can simply respond that Christ chose 12 MEN to be his Apostles. He violated the norms of his culture in all KINDS of ways. Saying that he did not choose women because of cultural dictates is ridiculous. I mean, really! He was born to lowly peasants in what was more or less a barn, for one. Hardly an auspicious way for God the Son to begin life. As an adult, his best friends were fishermen, a tax collector, and, well, forgive me for being a tad bold, a hooker. This is NOT a man who cared what important people thought. And he died in the most ignominious way possible, a traitor's death, a vile criminal's death. Only horrible people died that way!

Is anyone going to tell me that if the Son of God had wanted to call women to the Apostolate, he would have let something so minor as his CULTURE stop him? PULEEEEESE!!!!!!!

As for those of you arguing that allowing girls to serve at the Altar would be allowing them a Priestlike function, I find that a valid argument. But, fundamentally, we have to go back to the Scripture, and to the Fathers. Remember that the first Christians would ALL have been adults, and thus the servers would have been adult as well. Saint Paul is clear that men shall lead in the Church. And the constant practice of Holy Mother Church has ALWAYS been to maintain an all-male situation at the Altar of God. I think it is ultimately that simple. And if we EVER, as good Christian men and women, hope to unify the torn disunited Church, we MUST go back to the Scriptures and the Fathers.

As much as I believe in the Confessions of the Book of Concord, I think the last sentence of the last paragraph holds true even over that.

You're missing a lot here by being so categorical.

"No children were among the first Christians." If this weren't improbable on its face, we read explicitly as early as the Acts that whole households were being received, as a norm.

"There were no female apostles." None among the Twelve, but there are female apostles listed in the Acts and Epistles, and there are female Equal-to-the-Apostles among the saints. Further, since women were the backbone of material support of Christ's ministry, and traveled with him also to some extent, the special status of the Twelve in his lifetime becomes blurrier.

We do know from the Acts and Epistles that there were Eldresses, Deaconesses, Prophetesses, (female Apostles I've already mentioned), Virgin Widows with a special status, and more. Never forgetting the Theotokos.

"The Fathers ..." Well, we read in St. Gregory Nazianzus's odes to his late sainted mother how close she always was to the altar and how she died clinging to it. Granted, modern interpreters like R. Taft, S.J., have decided she must have worshiped in a very secluded private chapel, but the literature itself makes no mention of this and indeed doesn't treat the matter as anything extraordinary.

History does not willingly serve simplistic polemical purposes.
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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #429 on: June 08, 2017, 04:16:38 AM »
"No children were among the first Christians." If this weren't improbable on its face, we read explicitly as early as the Acts that whole households were being received, as a norm.

And next thing we know, we have child martyrs. That should put the particular claim to eternal rest.
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Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #430 on: June 13, 2017, 10:01:34 AM »
OK. Now that this digression into children is concluded, does anyone have anything relevant to say about the licity  of female altar servers?

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #431 on: June 13, 2017, 01:15:11 PM »
OK. Now that this digression into children is concluded, does anyone have anything relevant to say about the licity  of female altar servers?

There is no need for female altar servers.  None whatsoever.

....unless we run out of boys and men, women (other than female monasteries, which technically have run out of males), there is absolutely no need for women to enter the Altar.


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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #432 on: June 13, 2017, 01:34:48 PM »
... female monasteries, which technically have run out of males ...

;D
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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #433 on: August 09, 2017, 01:18:28 PM »
Not exactly a female altar server, but have you heard of a Tiara'd Matushka?

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In bestowing the dignity of wearing the mitre to Archpriest Nicholas, Archbishop Nikon observed that he played a significant role in building the current spiritually vibrant nature of the CT Deanery, both as Deanery Dean, and Chancellor when Archbishop Nikon first came to the New England Diocese.  In recognition of Matushka Anastasia's role alongside her husband, a tiarra was given to her.

http://www.stots.edu/news_170724_1.html



How this relates to the coming Antichrist? I don't know...

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #434 on: August 09, 2017, 01:22:53 PM »
Very nice.  I approve. :)
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #435 on: August 09, 2017, 04:11:53 PM »

I love that!

Afterall, they were crowned together in matrimony, and I'm certain she supported him and encouraged him, and is a vital part of his ministry, and success.

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #436 on: August 10, 2017, 01:10:57 AM »
That's cute. 
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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #437 on: August 10, 2017, 10:34:50 AM »

I love that!

Afterall, they were crowned together in matrimony, and I'm certain she supported him and encouraged him, and is a vital part of his ministry, and success.
+1

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #438 on: August 10, 2017, 11:32:48 AM »

I love that!

Afterall, they were crowned together in matrimony, and I'm certain she supported him and encouraged him, and is a vital part of his ministry, and success.
+1

+2
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #439 on: August 10, 2017, 01:59:52 PM »
On the one hand, it's appropriate and good; on the other hand, it's condescending and brushes aside a basic problem. Women do not enter the Kingdom as appendices of men but as daughters of the Most High, and they should not enter ordination as appendices of men, but as prophetesses and deaconesses in whom the gift of God was discerned and confirmed. A priest's wife is not ordained, and I am suspicious when folks pretend that she is, of which this charming tableau is only one example.
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #440 on: August 10, 2017, 02:49:24 PM »
I agree with Liza.  Although, forgive me, but it took several readings to figure out who was wearing what and why.  I have a lot to learn.   :-[
It didn't seem to me to necessarily be addressing or dismissing the question of women's ordination or altar serving--just a nice gesture.  :)
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #441 on: August 10, 2017, 05:48:58 PM »

In our church...the boys are altar servers...but, the girls play a very minimal role...and as they are still too young to grasp the awesomeness of the Liturgy, they often get bored and feel left out, as they watch their brothers serve.

We've tried to incorporate girls as often (but, not too much) as possible into various ceremonies.

This is most evident during Lent and Holy Week.  The girls all wear white dresses and walk together in the processions; and later holding candles, stand guard around the Plashchanitsia on Holy Friday.

On Sunday morning, they again lead the way in the procession.  On the third turn around the church, as they near the doors, one girl starts showering the sidewalk and steps with flower petals, so as the priest ascends to the doors he walks on a carpet of flowers.  Then everyone else who enters after the joyous news has been announced, enters the church walking on the flower petals.  It's nothing much, but, the girls feel important.

We've had some folks even complain about this...that the girls should not be standing by the the Plashchanitisia on Holy Friday...to which I reminded them of the Holy Myrrhbearers.

If the bishop is visiting, or there's a special event at church, we have the girls (and the little boys from school) hold candles during the reading of the Gospel.

We also post the girls in the back of the church, in the doorway, to pass out any fliers, church bulletins, etc. for that week.

These are all little and insignificant acts, however, they make the girls feel like they are participating.

So, there are many ways in which to include girls in our church services. 

The Altar is simply off limits.  Not just to the girls, but, to everyone, who does not have the blessing of priest or bishop to be there.

This sounds like a good approach to me.
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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #442 on: August 10, 2017, 05:52:16 PM »

I love that!

Afterall, they were crowned together in matrimony, and I'm certain she supported him and encouraged him, and is a vital part of his ministry, and success.
+1

+2

+3

I would approve of a service to bless and consecrate Matushkas/Presbyteras, which could follow or be  inserted into the ordinarion liturgy of their husband.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #443 on: August 10, 2017, 06:14:48 PM »

I love that!

Afterall, they were crowned together in matrimony, and I'm certain she supported him and encouraged him, and is a vital part of his ministry, and success.
+1

+2

+3

I would approve of a service to bless and consecrate Matushkas/Presbyteras, which could follow or be  inserted into the ordinarion liturgy of their husband.

Would be a pleasant bit of farce, if you ask me. It's not as tho these women are being chosen on their own merits. Therefore, it buries the question of why women's "ordainable" merits are not in the person of the woman herself acceptable offerings to the Church. As I alluded to before, there are religious movements in which it is held that the wife is saved by her husband's spiritual merits as long as she is faithful (Christian fundamentalist, altho Hindu fundamentalism teaches the same thing most explicitly). This is not orthodox, and any ritual that bears any similar message (in this case, that the ordination of a man is what can devolve to a woman) I very much doubt would be orthodox either.
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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #444 on: August 11, 2017, 08:42:36 AM »

I love that!

Afterall, they were crowned together in matrimony, and I'm certain she supported him and encouraged him, and is a vital part of his ministry, and success.
+1

+2

+3

I would approve of a service to bless and consecrate Matushkas/Presbyteras, which could follow or be  inserted into the ordinarion liturgy of their husband.

Would be a pleasant bit of farce, if you ask me. It's not as tho these women are being chosen on their own merits. Therefore, it buries the question of why women's "ordainable" merits are not in the person of the woman herself acceptable offerings to the Church. As I alluded to before, there are religious movements in which it is held that the wife is saved by her husband's spiritual merits as long as she is faithful (Christian fundamentalist, altho Hindu fundamentalism teaches the same thing most explicitly). This is not orthodox, and any ritual that bears any similar message (in this case, that the ordination of a man is what can devolve to a woman) I very much doubt would be orthodox either.

Such service of blessing has no reason, because, as Liza wrote, they were crowned together in matrimony. They're one body. So that's why we say (at least in some Slavic languages) that priest is father and his wife is mother (that's the meaning of matushka word). It just "happenes" that wife of the priest becomes a "mother" (matushka) along with his husband ordination.

But such appreciation of the ministry, of matushka's work as Mor linked is something very ncie. Because we very often don't notice the work and mission of matushkas at the parish life.
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Offline Bob2

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #445 on: August 11, 2017, 10:02:31 AM »
Not exactly a female altar server, but have you heard of a Tiara'd Matushka?

Quote
In bestowing the dignity of wearing the mitre to Archpriest Nicholas, Archbishop Nikon observed that he played a significant role in building the current spiritually vibrant nature of the CT Deanery, both as Deanery Dean, and Chancellor when Archbishop Nikon first came to the New England Diocese.  In recognition of Matushka Anastasia's role alongside her husband, a tiarra was given to her.

http://www.stots.edu/news_170724_1.html





It seems Vladyka noticed Matushka didn't have a head covering and wanted to remedy the situation ;)

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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #446 on: August 11, 2017, 10:35:23 AM »
I have a question on the consequences: Exactly what would it mean if female altar servers were permitted?
What would it mean for the liturgy? What harm would it effectively do?
Mind I do not want to advocate female priesthood or anything, just curios what you think what kind of problems it would cause in real life.
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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #447 on: August 11, 2017, 10:52:12 AM »
I have a question on the consequences: Exactly what would it mean if female altar servers were permitted?
What would it mean for the liturgy? What harm would it effectively do?
Mind I do not want to advocate female priesthood or anything, just curios what you think what kind of problems it would cause in real life.

But if you read the posts of the thread and look at the pictures posted there, you will see that female altar servers actually exist.
The best way is to ask the parishes that have female altar servers ;)
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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #448 on: August 11, 2017, 11:06:35 AM »
I have a question on the consequences: Exactly what would it mean if female altar servers were permitted?
What would it mean for the liturgy? What harm would it effectively do?
Mind I do not want to advocate female priesthood or anything, just curios what you think what kind of problems it would cause in real life.

But if you read the posts of the thread and look at the pictures posted there, you will see that female altar servers actually exist.
The best way is to ask the parishes that have female altar servers ;)

Really? I was under the impression that apart from very few exceptions (maybe some women´s monasteries), the altar was generally off limits for women.
Or were you referring to the picture with the Matushka, so to say a joke?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 11:07:26 AM by Lepanto »
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Re: Female Altar Servers??
« Reply #449 on: August 11, 2017, 11:36:53 AM »
I have a question on the consequences: Exactly what would it mean if female altar servers were permitted?
What would it mean for the liturgy? What harm would it effectively do?
Mind I do not want to advocate female priesthood or anything, just curios what you think what kind of problems it would cause in real life.

But if you read the posts of the thread and look at the pictures posted there, you will see that female altar servers actually exist.
The best way is to ask the parishes that have female altar servers ;)

Really? I was under the impression that apart from very few exceptions (maybe some women´s monasteries), the altar was generally off limits for women.
Or were you referring to the picture with the Matushka, so to say a joke?

No, I was serious. There are female servers in some Antiochian parishes, including cathedrals. I think i remember seeing one in a Polish parish. And even beyond being an altar server, women do some their stuff, like carrying churhc ensing during processions, holding candles etc. Such things happen even in Russian parishes.
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