Any news from the Synod of Antioch

[scamandrius]

Does anyone have any news or know of any (reputable) sources about what is transpiring about the Holy Synod of Antioch?  I have visited the Patriarchal website and there is nothing there.  Perhaps it is too soon to ask as it has only been going on for two days now.  But I'm really curious to know what is going on there.

[SDMPNS]

me too..Ive heard rumors but they are only that... rumors..

[SDMPNS]

What I would love to see happen is for the Bishops to be put into their original status as Bishops of a particular diocese...Met. Phillip retire and go away, far away and there be an independent audit of the Archdiocesan books and if they are as bad the OCA's were criminal charges be filed against the guilty parties..

[SDMPNS]

Hopefully a couple of the trustees left their cell phones open...you can't make this stuff up..

[arimethea]

Damascus is 7 hours ahead so I would venture we might hear something by lunchtime tomorrow. The Synod does not work off an agenda and jumps from topic to topic and won't decide on anything until it is over. The English side of the Patriarchal site has not been updated since 2007 so you will need to know Arabic if you want to get information from there. You might want to check the Diocese of LA's website since if Bishop Joseph sends a report it will be posted there first. 

[Irish Hermit]

The Holy Synod of Antioch Re-Affirms the February 24th Decision

According to our close sources within the Patriarchate, TheAntiochian.com  has learned that the Holy Synod of Antioch, at its meeting over the last several days, has re-affirmed the recent decision of February 24th 2009.  It is reported that all bishops in the our North American Archdiocese are auxilliary bishops to the Metropolitan.  The re-affirmation of the February 24th decision explicitly states that the auxilliary bishops are to serve under the authority of the Metropolitan and he is their point of reference.

The text to the resolution has not yet been made available; however, we are told that its release can be expected shortly.  During the meeting in which 16 members of the Holy Synod participated (excluding His Eminence, Metropolitan PHILIP), the Patriarch and the other members of the Synod listened to His Grace, Bishop Joseph and discussed the issues and concerns regarding the Archdiocese of North America and its Bishops as promised.  Following much discussion, it was decided and confirmed that the recent decision of February 24th shall remain intact.  The discussion centered around the fact that the unity of the one archdiocese should be preserved under one Metropolitan, who is assisted by auxiliary bishops.  The re-affirmation of the Holy Synod decision of February 24th is something that theantiochian.com has predicted for quite some time.  As early as the first week of June, our sources, following the bishop’s meeting with the Patriarch, indicated that it was expected that the February 24th decision would be re-affirmed.  At that time, we reported that His Beatitude, Ignatius IV stressed to the bishops that they remain Auxilliary Bishops and that by remaining Auxilliary Bishops does not reduce their status in terms of what they were consecrated to do.  In recent weeks, however, Bishops Basil denied that the term Auxilliary was used at their meeting in Damascus. When we probed our sources over this, we are told that not only was the word auxilliary used at that time, but also Bishop Mark had directly asked His Beatitude if he was Bishop of Toledo, for which the Patriarch told him that he is not the Bishop of Toledo but an Auxilliary Bishop who happens to reside in Toledo.  We re-iterate this point to stress the fact that our previous report as well as our sources was accurate.

All in all, this puts an end to all the turmoil and confusion that has plagued our Archdiocese over the last several months.   With one clear voice, the Holy Synod put to rest all the questions surrounding this chain of events and have declared our Archdiocese to be one united Archdiocese with several Auxilliary bishops under one Metropolitan.  In anticipation of the original text of this resolution, one can take comfort in knowing that our Archdiocese continues to remain stable and united under His Eminence, Metropolitan PHILIP.   God Bless the Holy Synod and His Eminence Metropolitan PHILIP, and all Auxilliary Bishops of this God-Protected Archdiocese.  We pray that this Archdiocese continues to grow and flourish with the guidance of our beloved Metropolitan PHILIP.  Many Years, Master.  Again, if you want the voice of truth and unity, you can find it all here at theantiochian.com.

[SDMPNS]

Fasten your seat belts! Its going to become a bumpy flight...This is all very sad

[Irish Hermit]

Fasten your seat belts! Its going to become a bumpy flight...This is all very sad

It does seem incredible.  They have confirmed the abolition of the office of diocesan bishop across an entire Patriarchate.  Can this be acceptable in terms of the Orthodox tradition and ecclesiology? 

[SDMPNS]

Since when did Orthodox tradition and ecclesiology matter? Its all about power and control and money..its always money.
My prayer is that this is not true TheAntiochian.Com isn't all that credible.
If it is true met. Phillip is going to create more havoc.I think we need a complete open independent audit of the books. That could be very interesting given Met. Phillip's love of the high life.
There is an Archdiocese Convention this summer . That could be quite a party.
I wonder how the clergy and laity are going to react if this is true.

[Aristobolus]

Go to http://www.antiochian.org/western, which is the web site of the diocese of LA where His Grace Bishop JOSEPH presides.  As of yesterday the front page had a picture of him and the Patriarch with an article reprinted from the Archdiocesan site about the former's sitting in for Metrpolitan PHILIP.  Today however the article is gone, but notice the language that has replaced it describing the Archdiocese as "self-ruled" and His Grace as "Bishop".  This is either a swan song for diocesan bishops, or it is an early signal of what has been decided.  Once again this site did not look like this last night.

[Aristobolus]

OOOPS.  This was the web page for the entire Western Region.  The LA Web page is the same!  No news here!

[Second Chance]

Fasten your seat belts! Its going to become a bumpy flight...This is all very sad

It does seem incredible.  They have confirmed the abolition of the office of diocesan bishop across an entire Patriarchate.  Can this be acceptable in terms of the Orthodox tradition and ecclesiology? 

There are three possibilities:

1. This report is not correct. The source is a blog site that has proven itself unreliable in the past.

2. The report is true on its face but the affirmation of the February decision is a gesture of thanks and appreciation toward Metropolitan Philip. Furthermore, the decision would not survive the retirement or death of the Metropolitan.

3. The report is true and the decision is final, with no caveats.

You asked whether this decision can be acceptable in light of tradition and ecclesiology. I do not think that it should be. However, the way that the Orthodox Churches have evolved over the centuries makes me believe that this development would certainly be as acceptable as some actions of the Church of Constantinople, such as the novel interpretation of Canon 28 and the ping-pong it played with the autocephaly of the Bulgarian Church.

[Aristobolus]

Well I can offer some "solid" news that is in the comments sections of the most recent theantiochian.com article:

A Fellow Orthodox Christian says:
June 18, 2009 at 5:08 am
“When we probed our sources over this, we are told that not only”

1) Your sources say that Bp. Mark kicks puppies.

2) Bp. Basil denies this.

3) You go back to your sources, who say that not only does Bp. Mark kick puppies, he also drowns kittens.

4) Bp. Basil must be a liar.

[ialmisry]

Fasten your seat belts! Its going to become a bumpy flight...This is all very sad

It does seem incredible.  They have confirmed the abolition of the office of diocesan bishop across an entire Patriarchate.  Can this be acceptable in terms of the Orthodox tradition and ecclesiology? 

No. "Auxilliary Bishop who happens to reside in Toledo."  That's just gibberish.

Hopefully, there is hope:

So what does this agreement mean for the OCA, and in turn, the Antiochian Archdiocese in North America? This coming week, June 18-20, St. Vladimir’s Seminary in Crestwood NY, hosts a conference titled, “The Council and the Tomos: Twentieth-century Landmarks towards a Twenty-first-century Church.”  The conference will address the significance of the OCA’s presence in North America,  “it’s future paths and possibilities open to it - including its interface with the multi-jurisdictional Orthodox Christian communities in the U.S. and Canada in light of the above decision.”  Since both the Chancellor of the OCA and one of the AOCA Chancellors will be present and speaking, the SVS Conference may give some indication of a response to this decision by the Old World about the New.

http://www.ocanews.org/news/Chambesy6.15.09_002.html

Given the Chancellors official, and legal, opinion on the matter, perhaps the topic might come up how Bishops Mark, Basil etc. might lead an effort like was done to rid us of Arb. Spyridon, and perhaps unite to the OCA (which would have the added benefit of derailing the train to impose the Chambesy (is that Swiss for Vichy?) Conferences.

Antiochians!  Remember, we have a Convention coming up!  It might be time to lance the boil...

[Corsair]

Since when did Orthodox tradition and ecclesiology matter? Its all about power and control and money..its always money.
My prayer is that this is not true TheAntiochian.Com isn't all that credible.
If it is true met. Phillip is going to create more havoc.I think we need a complete open independent audit of the books. That could be very interesting given Met. Phillip's love of the high life.
There is an Archdiocese Convention this summer . That could be quite a party.
I wonder how the clergy and laity are going to react if this is true.

TheAntiochian.Com has a consistent track record of (1) not getting things right and (2) only advocating for the auxiliary bishop model. I wouldn't jump to any conclusions until something comes out from the Patriarchate or from Bp Joseph.

[ialmisry]

Well I can offer some "solid" news that is in the comments sections of the most recent theantiochian.com article:

A Fellow Orthodox Christian says:
June 18, 2009 at 5:08 am
“When we probed our sources over this, we are told that not only”

1) Your sources say that Bp. Mark kicks puppies.

2) Bp. Basil denies this.

3) You go back to your sources, who say that not only does Bp. Mark kick puppies, he also drowns kittens.

4) Bp. Basil must be a liar.

Nice.  A little needed levity.

[SDMPNS]

This is all very depressing. I hope that it doesn't stand...I do like the idea of uniting with the OCA. I would not have said this a couple of years ago

[SDMPNS]

Interestingly enough there is nothing posted on the official web site of the Antiochian American Archdiocese or OCAnews.net..
Maybe this is all bu------. Lets all keep praying.

[SDMPNS]

I have heard that the meeting is still going on and that what was posted on TheAntiochian is not the final statement...there could still be some surprises.

[Aristobolus]

theantiochian.com web-site removed the humorous comment copied earlier in this thread.  Also this web-site is currently shut down for "maintainance".  Interesting.

[SDMPNS]

Its like Soviet Russia...

that site has been down for more than an hour...very interesting.I hope this is a good sign and means that Met Phillip is going to go away and that the Bishops will be returned to their norman status.

[SDMPNS]

NORMAL status...of coarse if you are Western Rite..."norman" status may work too

[SDMPNS]

The web site TheAntiochian is still down...it states it will be down for an hour but its been about five..whats up?

[ialmisry]

The web site TheAntiochian is still down...it states it will be down for an hour but its been about five..whats up?

LOL. Not TheAntiochian website.

[SDMPNS]

Yeah...go figure...I wonder what is up....they posted a "phony" statement and then were closed for an hour of maintenance going on for five hours...you cant make this stuff up..

[SDMPNS]

No news from Antioch as of 4:30AM CST...TheAntiochian.Com is still closed and it was "closed" yesterday for one hour of maintenance.its been closed for over 12 hours............very interesting.
There has not been a lot of leaks so someone must have confiscated cell phones on the way into the meeting. Even more interesting..

[SDMPNS]

Interesting reflection from Ocanews.org

6.19.09

Our Problem Is Not “Foreign Bishops”

Let me begin by saying that I am a strong advocate of Orthodox administrative unity in America. It is both uncanonical and impractical for us to be divided into separate, overlapping jurisdictions. It is a problem that needs to be solved.
 
Read More Here

[ialmisry]

Interesting reflection from Ocanews.org

6.19.09

Our Problem Is Not “Foreign Bishops”

Let me begin by saying that I am a strong advocate of Orthodox administrative unity in America. It is both uncanonical and impractical for us to be divided into separate, overlapping jurisdictions. It is a problem that needs to be solved.
 
Read More Here

Isn't Bishops Basil and Alexander "foreign bishops," in the strictist sense, and yet they are part of the solution.

[Thomas]

Actually His Grace Bishop Basil is a native born American born to second generation immigrant parents. Here is what is said on the diocese area of www.antiochian.org  "Bishop BASIL was born in the southwestern Pennsylvania town of Monessen on November 26, 1948. He is the only son and eldest of three children born of William and Genevieve Essey." I have been told that he speaks arabic as a second Language.

Thomas

[SDMPNS]

Bishop Basil is a good man. Lets not turn this into reverse "phyletism".Bishop Mark is also a ray of light.
I am praying that Met.Phillip will resign..I had no idea that things were this bad in the Antiochian Archdiocese. What kind of Church do we have if the priests are terrified of their Bishop?

[ialmisry]

Bishop Basil is a good man. Lets not turn this into reverse "phyletism".Bishop Mark is also a ray of light.

Not my intention.  I just was pointing out, this is not a "foreign/native," or "cradle/convert" issue. It is a "uncanonical/canonical" issue.

I am praying that Met.Phillip will resign..I had no idea that things were this bad in the Antiochian Archdiocese. What kind of Church do we have if the priests are terrified of their Bishop?

I'm hoping Met. Phillip's legacy can somehow be salvaged.

[arimethea]

Bishop Basil is a good man. Lets not turn this into reverse "phyletism".Bishop Mark is also a ray of light.

Not my intention.  I just was pointing out, this is not a "foreign/native," or "cradle/convert" issue. It is a "uncanonical/canonical" issue.

I am praying that Met.Phillip will resign..I had no idea that things were this bad in the Antiochian Archdiocese. What kind of Church do we have if the priests are terrified of their Bishop?

I'm hoping Met. Phillip's legacy can somehow be salvaged.

When people cry about being under foreign bishops I always like to point out to them what happened in the Greek Archdiocese of America. Archbishop Spyridon was born in Americana and lived here until High School. He identifies himself as an American but many would call his tenure a disaster. His replacement is a very much Greek yet Archbishop Demetrios has brought a great deal of stability to the Archdiocese and is slowly trying to transform it from an inward looking mission to an outward looking mission.

Where one is born does not make them a good or bad bishop but rather then what is in their hearts.

As for saving Metropolitan Philip's legacy; I believe he has gone over too many waterfalls in order to restore it to were it was a few years ago. History may write it to say that he suffered from dementia or some other disorder to try and excuse his behavior of the past few years. There were several opportunities for Metropolitan Philip to fix this and preserve his legacy but he chose to keep his boat of the archdiocese going down this river.

The Bishop's of his local Synod were of one mind and that mind was the vision Metropolitan Philip spoke in public. Over the last few years I, and many in the Archdiocese, have seen Metropolitan Philip publicly embarrass the Bishops of the local synod and in the process alienate them and many of the people. This was the first sign of the rapids of this treacherous river.

The greatest waterfall was the one that it appears Metropolitan Philip helped orchestrate and that is the February 24th Decision. Either Metropolitan Philip did not hear the initial public out cry or choose to ignore it but, this waterfall caused many to fall off his boat.

The clergy of Wichita asked questions in a polite, well thought out and loving manner and in return they received a letter that was short and did not explain anything, another waterfall and more people lost. The deans of the Midwest asked to meet with the Metropolitan and he turns them down, another waterfall and more people flee the boat.

The chancellors of the Archdiocese compose a truthful and well written document that would allow the Metropolitan to turn this ship around and put everything back but, instead he torches this document and humiliates the chancellors. He called them traitors but, in reality they were his best friends and were acting as Shem and Japheth to cover the nakedness of the Metropolitan but instead of acting as Noah, Metropolitan Philip decided to curse Shem and Japheth and so many people fell off the boat that now there are only a few people left holding on the shard of wood that use to be the boat of the legacy of Metropolitan Philip.

[Andrew21091]

Bishop Basil is a good man. Lets not turn this into reverse "phyletism".Bishop Mark is also a ray of light.

Not my intention.  I just was pointing out, this is not a "foreign/native," or "cradle/convert" issue. It is a "uncanonical/canonical" issue.

I am praying that Met.Phillip will resign..I had no idea that things were this bad in the Antiochian Archdiocese. What kind of Church do we have if the priests are terrified of their Bishop?

I'm hoping Met. Phillip's legacy can somehow be salvaged.

I just pray it all ends peacefully and that the Metropolitan's legacy will not be tarnished too much by these recent actions. May God guide the Archdiocese and protect the faithful people.

[Aristobolus]

theantiochian.com is back up and running.  There is now a photo of the Synod in session, and a continued insistence that the February 24th decision has been re-affirmed- but with a few additions to keep unity.

[SDMPNS]

I saw that.the one hour of maintenance turned into 16....nothing is posted on the official web sites or OCANews.Org. I do not know who to believe.
Stephen

[Second Chance]

A new posting at the OCANews.Org (approximately 1510 EDT)

"6.19.09

Meeting Ends: Statement Awaited

The meeting of the Synod of Antioch concluded Friday morning, June 19, with the issuance of a brief Statement regarding the situation in North America. Various reports from the meeting indicate that the gathering was very contentious and resulted in a decision that was not unanimous.

It is reported that those who voted against the Statement of the Synod were those normally aligned with Metropolitan Philip.

As soon as the official English language translation of the Statement is released, it will be posted on OCANews.org."

[SDMPNS]

Very interesting....I hope this means that the decision was overturned and that Met. Phillip is retiring

[ialmisry]

Nothing on the Arabic website.

[SDMPNS]

Interesting...are they just taking their time translating or is it so explosive they are loathe to get it out?

[basilthefool]

Theantiochian.com site has just posted this statement. What do you make of it?

A Clarification for Bishop Alexander’s Statement

TheAntiochian.com just learned of an email that was sent by Bishop Alexander, in which he states the following: “Greetings brother clergy…..the holy synod seems to have finished its meeting…preliminary news indicate that the synod has restored the dignity of the bishops in the see of Antioch…still awaiting release of formal statement.”

TheAntiochian.com has knowledge of the preliminary “official” statement in which the Holy Synod assured that all the bishops of the See of Antioch are equal in their episcopacy and dignity.  However, one must not mistake this equality in “dignity” as that being equal in an administrative manner.  It is true that all bishops have the same “dignity”, regardless of whether they are auxiliary, diocesan, metropolitan, or patriarch; for all are consecrated bishops.  However, TheAntiochian.com has learned from an anonymous source within the Patriarchate that the Holy Synod DID NOT restore our bishops to diocesan bishops and that the new resolution indicates that they are to serve as auxiliaries to His Eminence, Metropolitan Philip.  The Holy Synod has finished its work and the official statement has been prepared and signed.  The official release of this statement is pending.  We again pray that the lord, grant many years to His Beatitude Patriarch Ignatius IV.

[SDMPNS]

I trust Bishop Alexander as he was in the room..I have no idea who is running TheAntiochian.Com but they have been wrong way too many times...If the Bishops are reinstated..Please God..let this be so....how can Met.Phillip show his face?
Since this crisis began the rock was lifted and people finally began to speak openly about his abuses...we need an independent audit of the books

[ialmisry]

Theantiochian.com site has just posted this statement. What do you make of it?

A Clarification for Bishop Alexander’s Statement

TheAntiochian.com just learned of an email that was sent by Bishop Alexander, in which he states the following: “Greetings brother clergy…..the holy synod seems to have finished its meeting…preliminary news indicate that the synod has restored the dignity of the bishops in the see of Antioch…still awaiting release of formal statement.”

TheAntiochian.com has knowledge of the preliminary “official” statement in which the Holy Synod assured that all the bishops of the See of Antioch are equal in their episcopacy and dignity.  However, one must not mistake this equality in “dignity” as that being equal in an administrative manner.  It is true that all bishops have the same “dignity”, regardless of whether they are auxiliary, diocesan, metropolitan, or patriarch; for all are consecrated bishops.  However, TheAntiochian.com has learned from an anonymous source within the Patriarchate that the Holy Synod DID NOT restore our bishops to diocesan bishops and that the new resolution indicates that they are to serve as auxiliaries to His Eminence, Metropolitan Philip.  The Holy Synod has finished its work and the official statement has been prepared and signed.  The official release of this statement is pending.  We again pray that the lord, grant many years to His Beatitude Patriarch Ignatius IV.

This is a new angle from TheAntiochian.com, and reeks of spin.  They seem to back pending.  If the dignity wasn't taken in February, what is there to restore?

I get the feeling that if they got their way, they would be chorttling by now.

[SDMPNS]

As of 6:12Pm CST..USA..the statement has not yet been released...I have a feeling they are fighting over language. I think Bp. Alexander's statement means that the Feb decision has been reversed...I pray it has been reversed.
However, what about Met.Phillip...if he sstays after this,if the decision is reversed ,he is going to be very very angry.

[Abouna]

Let us just pray for our Archdiocese, our Metropolitan, our Bishops and the Faithful

[ialmisry]

The Archdiocesan Convention should really be an event to miss.  +Philip gets really angry when he is thwarted.  It could be very ugly.

Only is he is still around.

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